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SL020: How To Become A Global Keynote Speaker

Jun 29, 2019

In today's episode of The Speakers Life I talk with Cyriel Kortleven CSP, a keynote speaker on change.

Artificial Intelligence Generated Transcript

Below is a machine-generated transcript and therefore the transcript may contain errors.

Hey there is James Taylor here and I'm delighted today to have a different Cyriel Kortleven with us. Cyriel is a global speaker and author on creativity and change. A digital nomad who believes inspiring others changing mindsets. And the idea that less is beautiful. He is the author of five books, and we're not speaking on stage as you might find him at the Burning Man festival, or climbing up the ladder, this will discover in a minute. So first of all, welcome to the show, Sarah,
thank you very happy to be here.

So share with everyone what's happening in your world just now what you're up to the moment. At this moment, I'm preparing some new trips. So in September, I'm planning to go to Singapore again. So I'm reaching out to some people and see if I can do some stuff. And probably I got a request to do something in Australia next year. So they're also slowly reaching out to some people build up a small network there some activating those people.

And I'm obviously your your speakers, you member. So you and I were going to work together a lot on that. And I'm always really impressed with you because you're one of the speakers who you you you take an idea, you learn some Mary Smith training I've done or something we've spoken about coaching piece, and then you go and act, you're very good at actually making stuff happen and doing it pretty quickly as well. Is that because the creativity bit in you is it's about adapting to change being be flexible in that way.

Yes, absolutely. And that, I think, even as a speaker, because to be honest, at this moment, mind, my business is a little bit slower, which is quite weird, because of the previous years it was really going up. But if spend a lot of time last year on working on a new book, and then still do you notice that that in terms of acquisition and marketing, you have to stay on top of it. So for that reason, I'm really open to floor new things. But you see that more and more speak, speakers get booked fire, social media, those kind of things. So I like to experiment and not least do it. Do it for a moment, see if it is something for me. If not, if it cost me too much energy, or it's not my style, or try to let it go and try something else. So yeah, I think it has something to do with creativity. Experiment, try new things.

I think that's what you mentioned there about doing that. But I see this, I see this a lot with speakers, I coach, when they go into that book writing thing, because it's such a huge, most because I know when they go into things, they go in like all in a really goal and you like to get dive and you're you're learning about your story, then you're thinking about it, and you get the marketing and the launch. And as a result, there's that period of you know, the however many months you're working on that book where you got your focus, and you're not focused too much on the marketing and the creative, but you've been speaking professionally now for about five years. But one of the that you very much position yourself is as an international speaker. speakers, I tell us about that. Because we're both from pretty small countries, I'm here in Scotland, you're over there in Belgium, and, and so there's not lots of opportunities in our own home countries. So So tell tell me about your thinking when you decide to be a professional speaker, what the international piece was, yeah.

And immediately when I started immediately wanted to go international. So my website was mainly in English. And my focus was indeed, a global focus. And that's, it sounds really big, but like you said, you know, like Scotland, Belgium, quite small speaking countries, not a lot of speaking opportunities. So if you want to make a living of it, you merely have to think in a different mindset or framework. So that was for me, you know, my my English is not perfect, but you know, I'm happy to go on stage and what I've learned from there's also an interesting thing for non native English speakers. At the last event was in Singapore, somebody was sharing a story that apparently, most if you think about how many people speak native to native English, that's only four or 5%. Now, I was quite amazed. But if you think about it, it's quite logical, because you have a lot of times you have a native speaker talking to no native people, and you have a lot of non native speakers speaking to non native English. So I don't think it's, it's a disadvantage, probably it's even more an advantage because they use quite simple language. I speak a little bit slower. So I don't see this as a negative thing.

No, I actually, I definitely think it's an advantage. Because I think that was Heather Hansen. Remember how she did that? reshare 95% of all business conversations are happening between people. The English isn't their their mother tongue. And a friend of mine Sylvie de justo, based in New York, she's a German, German lives in New York. And she was getting booked all the time on these TV shows. And she finally asked the producer one day why, you know, have this funny accent? Why are you looking me?

And she said, Well, the producer, well, the thing is we love about you, is because English isn't new your first language, you say things with a certain type of efficiency in a simplicity that works for the for the audience, and native English speakers, we tend to make things a little bit too flowery at times. And you can go directly. So you know whether anyone's watching this just now you're in India or wherever you are in the world. And you're not a native English speaker. And you want to break into the listen to what Cyril saying there's there's actually an advantage here.

Yeah, absolutely. And then once, but what's quite interesting is what I've done at the start, because how do you get international gig? So what I've done with the start was looking, okay, what's the most direct way to learn something about a country? And one thing is, of course, visit that country. But then how do you start make connections, and I was already a member of or I think it was the same time that I started my speaking business, I followed an international PSA event. So professional speaking, Association. And that's, that really helped my business because what what you notice is a lot of our professional speaker stay getter, and most of the associations the f1 international event once a year, that's a great opportunity to visit that country at that moment, because then you meet a lot of fears. Since then, you've already got a lot of new friends speaking friends, you know, we got to know each other and, and that's a very good start to learn something, okay, how speaking business work in this country, if you can make a connection, you know, some speakers can see you in action. And immediately, they can recommend you because they they already have a business in that country. So that's also a very good way to start an international business. But you have to invest some time and money. You have to go

there and buy that plane ticket, get on that plane, go go there and spend time Exactly. You're absolutely right. Now you and I both speak on very similar topic, mostly on creativity. You come in obviously from the change side as well. We have other people like Frederick Heron, example, Duncan, Wardell and then the US, like Josh Linkner, for examples. So there's, there's this grouping of probably 10, Dennis Jacobs in Miami to speak on on creativity. And I thought it was interesting to point this out to people that are just coming to this the speaking industry coming in at first it's a it's a special strange industry, and that we all know each other, if you speak on your topic, and what is maybe unusual for certain industries do this. I cover the music industry and is definitely isn't like this and music industry. We refer work to each other. Yeah. So Talk Talk to us about that, about this idea of, of having this grouping of people all speak on pretty similar topics, and how you how you connect with them, how you work alongside them, and how you share ideas. Without was it competitive? Some project competitors?

Yeah, yeah, it looks like the first thing you might think, hey, competitors, and don't go to work or talk to that guy. But but it's almost the opposite. Because everybody has his or her own style, there's already one thing I love to work in a very interactive way. My story is very simple, where you, you know, you make links with more water, new technologies, a different perspective to the business, same topic. But it was also quite interesting, you know, sometimes I get a request for a gig, and one of the biggest challenges is always the date, you know, am I still free because that's in our business, you are the product. So if there is a conference, organize on that date, and you're not free, okay, I want to make that client also happy. So at that moment, their team or topic is on creativity or change. So that's perfect. You know, I know you, I've seen you at one of those conferences, I totally trust your, your, your content and your style. So I recommend you and and you do the same for me. So instead of seeing and it's true, it's I think it's quite a bizarre thing in certain industries, because most competitors, they're afraid to refer each other. And I think it's even the opposite. And the topic is also so brought in our creativity change, you can approach the topic probably from 10, or 20, or even more different angles. So it's easy to kind of add on, you know, once you've seen you, Hey, wait a minute, we can both have this, Cyril look from this perspective to it and, and it works.

Well. And I think as well, there's also that I haven't seen this go in many topic areas yet. But I think it's actually I see a little bit in the social media, people, friends of mine to speak on social media influencers. And for example, what they do is they essentially crowd round, and their voice because they're all competitors. But they're all speaking of different things. They're making such a noise together about promoting and sharing each other's content and talking about each other's work all the time, either formally or informally, we have this net, this network, that the whole topic of the end of influencer marketing is going up. And more conferences than a booking people are talking in homes and marketing, because it's just being taught. So I think this is actually the opportunity that we have as speakers, if we think of ourselves less as just as individuals to actually to work together and to collaborate. And yeah.

And I think that a lot of countries, you know, the speaking industry isn't that big thing in the US, it's quite a big speaking industry. To be honest, I don't do a lot of work there. I spoke there a few times, three, four times, but not know a lot. Because you think the speaking business is already quite, it's quite busy there. But as compared to it to the other continents, like in Europe, it's it's okay. But countries like Asia or Australia, you know, they're looking for speakers and the nice thing, and that's, again, vaulted, if you are an international speaker, if you're coming from a different country, most of the time, you think wow, you know, we have an international guests, and then immediately, you know, you go up in the ranking instead of being a local speaker. So it's quite funny that I think at one moment, I had a request for the same company, one wasn't Belgium. One was an Asia and in Asia, they were really talking while we can get the speaker it's really nice. And and they are in Belgium plus, oh, no. Okay, we have we have a Belgian speaker and I didn't get the Belgian gig. But it did something in Singapore, which is quite crazy. But I think the international aspect probably played a role in that will absolutely, yeah, Minaj best suited any cause of the alien advantage that you you have this foreign thing.

And I don't think I know a big part of your strategy has been, obviously speaking globally, but also pushing into Asia along we I know you're spending you spend a lot of time in Asia developing in some of those new new countries in Thailand a lot, for example. So tell me what you're thinking about as Asia, there a particular countries in Asia that you find particularly exciting at the moment.

For me at this moment, yeah, I'm still building up my business in Asia, and then my strategy is to go least two or three times to the same spot. So now I'm even thinking about starting a business up in, in Singapore, why Singapore, it's so easy. A lot of headquarters of Asia are based there. So if you can do something there, it's a lot easier than to travel around, go to Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, those countries around it. So at this moment, I'm mainly focusing on Singapore, Hong Kong, what I'm noticing is that there is still quite a lot of focus on the training master classes. But that could be a good start and noticing that you are more and more open to have a kind of a keynote for logic group, and then do a master class to do a training of half a day or day for a smaller group of people. But I have a feeling that that that it's really booming, I think, five years ago, it was the first time that I went there. And then also the Asia professional speakers, it was still a small group within five years, they boomed there, they are really doing Wow. And you have a feeling that you're more and more open for also the speaking business. So that's one of the reasons why Yeah, I want to be there. I mean, like it I like the people we love Thailand to make combine it with a holiday. So that's also really interesting. Once you're based in a place like that, or you have a good network. It's so easy to travel and explore that part of the world. You know, talk talk about the lifestyle piece, because I speak 50 times a year. That's my limit. I don't wanna speak any more than that.

I've told a friend of mine the other day, he's 163 keynotes last year. And I that for me, that would just I just can't imagine wanting to speak that much and do that much for you. How do you Is there a certain number of gigs you want to be doing every year? How do you ensure that you have a lifestyle and also you're doing the kind of speaking that you want to do? Yeah, for me at this moment, I would say that still, probably 50% is still in the Benelux because, you know, my my big network is here, a lot of people know me. But then 50% is a bit bit all over the place. 20% Europe, 20% Asia and 10%. Other places, I think, yeah, it would be somewhere between 40 5060 speeches, 60 will be off for me to maximum, what I tried to do is money half a gig internationally, I always try to stay as good as possible if you don't have other things going on. But to stay at least one or two days longer. for a few reasons. One, at least have a half day to walk around, feel the energy of the city, talk to some people, but also have an opportunity to speak to some other potential clients.

So once I ever get, for example, in Hong Kong, but I tried to do is see if I can invite my network that I already have there if there is a speaking bureau or or potential client to invite that person to the speaking gig, because that's still the best promotion. Yeah, no, I would say that. Yeah, probably 90% of my speaking gigs come via somebody who saw me. So I'm also happy if I'm going to a new country to do some free speeches or marketing speeches, do something for a chamber of commerce, do something for a Hey, HR leaders network. And then I'm really happy to play with my feed, because that was a good opportunity for me do that more people can see me. So I always try to stay one or two days longer. What I've also done certainly when he went, I've been several times to Australia, and that's such a big trip from Europe, just going off one gig, it's true. It's really hard. So normally I plant two or three weeks, my wife came with me and we combine it with a holiday. So that's that's what we do still at this moment, probably twice a year that we combine it with a holiday of a week.

And, and you have a preference in terms of let's say you're going to speaking, I'm gonna say Bangkok as an example. You're speaking engagement in Bangkok, giving preference whether you have those extra days, whether you have them before the event, or after the event was what's your preference? Yeah.

But if you have a free agenda would book it afterwards Why then you're done with the speech, and then you can really enjoy. Enjoy the holiday. In some cases a little bit harder, you know, if your way of speaking gigs meet the officer it. But then, yeah, the day before with notices that the client also live sets to know that you're already in the country. A lot of times you want to have an extra meeting with you. So I wouldn't book a holiday just just before the speech always have one day open for some business. Yes,

I'm the same as you. And I like having it if I have actually having it after the event, so I can, like, the only exception to that is if it's an industry that I've never spoken up before. And it's a three day conference, maybe I'm speaking on the last day. I actually like like what actually did this week? I went in the day before, because industry I've never spoken to before. And I was a little bit worried that you know, I don't understand this industry do was it challenges. And I frankly, I just needed the day to go and talk to some of the exhibitors that were there to have a dinner the night before with some their clients. So I could really internalize and I mentioned that in the keynotes, I'll use some stories and things so so yeah, so that I could talk that lifestyle piece, which it sounds like it's very important for you. As you've been building your speaking career, was there a time when you maybe worked on something, it could have been a particular speech, or you did a marketing thing that you don't, you're speaking, and you gave it your heart and your soul? But for whatever reason, it didn't work out like you'd hoped? And more importantly, what was the lesson that you took from that experience?

Well, maybe if one nice story is not really marketing or business wise, but it was more more conference wise, I think is a nice story also to share with the people who are not so experienced. I could. It wasn't Australia, I think it was in Melbourne. And I could do the opening speech for the professional speaking Association in Australia. So which was really cool yet, hundred De Beers. So also quite exciting. Uber with work summary really developed my speech on it wasn't a change mindset, but really adapted for the speakers. But they had a small event the evening before, before the real conference would start. What happened they had was was also speaker there was doing a bit more of some networking exercises. But at one moment, that person did an exercise and maybe you know, did I get sighs an exercise with Yes, but yes, it's one of my main parts of my speech to suspend judgment. And suddenly, I had no clue what they were going to do. But then we're doing all kind of networking exercise. So let's do it. Yes, but yes, and exercise tomorrow, and that's quite an important part of my presentation. But the exercise, what am I going to do it tomorrow, you know, I can't I can't do the same thing. Tomorrow and before. So that night was quite or the evening, even I didn't join that working dream because it was really, but stressed, what's going to happen, but at one moment, the lesson that I took a circle, you know, they invited you here to give this speech, you You are an experienced speaker, just relax. So what he did to the cold shower that really helped. And then it was things Cyriel, you know, they stay close to yourself this happened. Why don't you use it, you know, when be be vulnerable and say what's happening to you at this moment? Because it was quite stressed. I was thinking Oh, how would they go to react and after a allowed myself to get into that? That's the mindset or more open minds interesting. Several you talk about the open mindset, so don't be so stressed. What came up to me is Hey, so maybe you have to do something funny. And and and explain what is happening to you right now in you know, in your thoughts and what I've done and that was it was really a switch study made. The next day explain Hey, people normally I was planning to do an anxiety Yes, but yes, and but you know what happened yesterday? And then everybody was already think I here who what would happen if that would happen to me, you know, such a thing. And that's what I've done have used a created a new slides with my thoughts are like a typewriter. You know, my, my my words are my thoughts came up into the slides on Oh, he's using the same exercise. And that worked out brilliantly. So I explained what happened. And then he said, I made a switch. Now I'm going to do the exercise anyway. But I do it in my style from a different perspective. And it's worked out brilliantly, but needed to do bring them in the right context. Yeah. So my advice of my learning would be as you know, stick to yourself, what's happening to you and bring that story. Know your audience. They're also human being. So if you explain your process, and I did it with humor that worked for me, people will appreciate it. And yeah, it was really work. But sometimes yet things go differently.

But I mean, we think about it. It's interesting, you shared that story, because I think I said that, if you become more experienced, that is going to happen to you. It's going to happen, it's going to happen if someone the other day, it says there's one speaker that doesn't speak to him. Because he he gave a speech and he gave his speech in the morning that say, he didn't know this other speaker speaking in the afternoon, what their speech was about. And when the key stories us was when the key story they used in the afternoon. And they came up to him and said, You've come you did you do this on purpose as he hadn't done it on purpose. It was just it was genuine mistake, but it's gonna it's gonna happen to you. Yep. It also leads me to believe that there's actually a little bit of power in that. Well, first of all, there's the reinforcement thing. I'm guessing that by the end of the left that event, every know everyone knows that. Yes, and yes. But the other thing is, is more of a personality and a tone piece, where if we think let's say I have a lot of books on marketing or leadership, and I might like that book, you might like this book, because that also speaks to me, this also speaks to you and it's not and it's just these those different voices. But this happened to me what you just said there almost happened to me this week, I was speaking at an event. And I was I was due to speak at 930. In the morning, there was another speaker who's speaking at nine in the morning, he was one of the sponsors when the big sponsors of the event. And I always ask if someone's just speaking a little bit before me in the morning when I asked this, and can you tell me what, what this The topic is what they're speaking about. And they were kind enough, that speaker was kind enough to actually send me his slides, and actually saw what he was doing. And he actually mentioned something that I hope I do an opening with him. And, and I was like, oh, How's this? how's this gonna work? It was great. And and because the person that was speaking first was he comes from the industry, and is an engineer. So he spoke had spoke like, not a professional speaker would speak you spoke in terms of stats. Yes, we I speaking like you and I speak we speak more stories and principles. And so actually, it worked out quite well. But lately, it was it was a bit a little bit.

Yeah. Based on your experience, you know, to make a switch, or it's the same for me, if I if I, I always try if there's a full day event, and I'm the last speaker, I try to be there the whole day. Absolutely. Just to you know, you can make an exercise but also for these kind of things that I hadn't before the people were using a different exercise the director exercise, so when I did I switch my slides, you know, if you have a backup totally fine, even though it but sometimes, yeah, you share it, you know, it's elephant in the room, do something with it, making make make it click or bring it a look from this from this perspective. And that is fine, then most people are okay with it.

Can you talk to about a speech that you've given me doing a question for five years, but one way you felt like something changed? Maybe it was intended, you just felt like your topic you really clicking on your topic, what you wanted to speak about or where you would go You were going at it or maybe something in terms of your craft your presentation, but you just went It was one of those ones? You remember, you look back and think that was important for good or for bad. Can you maybe talk to one of those key speeches in your life? Yeah.

Yeah, there was absolutely one I did. It did a speech for the European communication summit, which was really cool. I think there were 700 communication directors from all of Europe. What I don't involves was, I think, a week in advance of send out to five or six people, from participants who would be attending that conference. And they had a short chat with them. But a few I had a goal with three of them, he had a goal with three of them add an email conversation. And what I did is also what's what's the biggest challenge that you have in your industry and the communication, your role as a communication director, I want to dominate didn't know it would work or not, but they created a kind of a word clouds might have all of the answers the game. And it could make a nice link with the topic that he had. What if no decision really resonated with the audience even I just thought about it for one minutes. But just the fact that I could say, hey, I've been talking to several of you in the audience, I created a workflow. What he felt was immediately a connection and better connection. So since then, for all the little bit bigger events, I tried to do it all the time to at least speak to several people in advance and create a small word cloud, it's not that much work for you, I learned something about industry, I can make some better connections. I could use their words, it was also quite interesting. I wish I would have use a different word but they're always talking about this. Know what that was quite quite interesting insight.

That's that's a great technique. There's I know there's a not really to the speaking but there's a related to more on marketing, book marketing there is. And I forgotten his name. Now, a guy who really teaches about marketing. And he said, What he does is, before you ever writes a book, he goes into Amazon. And he reviews goes, gets all the tests, the testimonials and Amazon for book. And he just loaded them all into some spreadsheet and it creates a word cloud. And then he see if it works. The biggest is the words that he ends up you. So it's not the words that he would maybe even use as an author. Was that your audience? So you that's what you've done, your views the audience has was how they, how they relate to their problems, the words that they would use it, I think it's a really smart thing. And I can imagine, there's 500 people in the audience, as soon as they see that. They're going to go, john asked me that he understands me as well. So that great, that's a great little to might use up on my word clouds. Very good suggestion. What's the best piece of advice that you've ever received? In terms of how to build a speaking business? You've obviously interacted, you mentioned going to all these speakers associations, obviously, you and I work together as well. And speakers you but from your all these events? You've been to what's the best piece of advice you've heard?

Yeah. By the way, and it's not that they know you. But the speakers you Wow, what a great source of inspiration. Because Yeah, I joined beginning of this year, and I've been watching a lot of videos. Yeah. So if you want to start out that's absolutely a good base. Also, probably vote maybe already recommended before. But Frederick Frederick Aaron, I think he's really generous with his blog building up an international speaking businesses. So that's really good. And I think, yeah, one of the pieces of advice that the he shares, all of the diamond, and it works, and probably people already have heard it many times, but but it works. So yeah, let's keep on repeating it, is that the best way to get new speeches is deliver brilliant speech. And that's noticing more, because I think my speeches is good, I would give myself an eighth, I always get eight 910 on revelation scores, and I would give myself eight. But still, I keep on investing and getting better and storytelling, stage draw. And sometimes people say but so his things already very good. Why? Because you think if I can go from eight to eight and a half, or two and nine, I'm quite sure instead of three people line up after my speech, it will be five people. And so keep on working on the speech and, and even my speeches, it's quite simple. I think it's really good. But every minute, what can be better, what how can I interact better?

Well, now on the speech that you did, the one I saw, it was so insightful. And you do something, which I think is a really bold idea, I probably wouldn't do it, which is which also speaks to the difference about we both speak on the same topic, we come at it from completely different standpoints, you do something you do something which is called using a physical product. And it's extremely memorable. So I don't know whether you want to explain what it is because I think it's whether you use something like the thing you do or have some type of physical Prop, I do think a physical prop is a very powerful thing to do that we can learn from the theater, for example.

Yeah, absolutely. So when indeed, in one of my speeches to do the most change mindset, I use a ladder and a banana. And it's a little metaphor that came from a tonight, which is quite quite funny, actually, because I saw cartoon with a banana peel lying on the floor, there was the ladder was over it. And a lot of people will walk over the ladder, and which is really bizarre. I almost think this is this is exactly the essence, what I want to talk about because they want to, for me a ladder, or the metaphor of a ladder, our old inefficient rules, systems, guidelines, ways of working, that we've built up and a lot of companies, you know, a lot of those those rules are coming from the past, you know, they've worked in the past, but are they still relevant? That was thing this metaphor is so simple. So at one moment, I did an experiment again, let's let's try it on stage. And the audience say they love them. Because this very visual, you know, you see a guy climbing a ladder and, and to be honest, since then, I already collected a lot of stories, real ladder stories, because when I'm traveling, I'm not taking my own ladder, I've been thinking about it, you know, really go the suitcase with a ladder, which would be in terms of branding, quite interesting. But a lot of times at a conference, I couldn't get a ladder or it could get a ladder, but it couldn't climb it because they were afraid for safety and what have you fought. So I could even use those kind of examples. They are exactly the point that he wants to talk about. So it gave me a lot of new stories. But indeed, sometimes is a little bit challenging to do to find a physical To be honest, maybe I will recommend different speaker not to use a ladder but to something a little bit more simple.

I saw a speaker Tom lightning who both both know he has a great one he actually had a lot of places now you have these microphones inside of boxes and he actually got some type of Gremlin soft toy and he's put a microphone inside and he is able to throw around using which is using a kind of catapult cetera is the Catholic I'm not sure how much longer the catapult will be making us we have a problem Taylor, but the little thing he takes around him as a great prop so I think there's a lot of things that we can learn from that world. But using visual props because it does make you remember I remember you know you other for me myself my head the ladder and I can remember that that you that yellow ladder as well. It's

interesting because a lot of proper use just quickly I used to the coaster, I don't know if you still remember this one in Belgium, us. You have heard side and a green side. But what's so interesting, James is that I've seen people three or four years after my speech, I come back to see me Hey, wait a minute, are you Cyril, I'm still you know, the ghosts are still on my desk. This is brilliant material, you know and you have to do something you know, it has to be part of your presentation. But I think sometimes you can be smart because we're doing a lot of marketing outside of what some marketing tool that you can use inside out. So what a small thing what's an easy thing that you can give the audience to

and then the one I'm about to do which I learned from a comedian recently having seen a show is very low tech because it was on my physical products but he can also be on the factory props as well. So what she has a she has these flyers which going all the seats but before she speaks about mindfulness, she she screens them all with 11% and a part of speech she says something along the lines of so keep that bit of paper that is there is spelled out their papers. Now, you notice I put laughing that's a smell of relaxation. So put that by your desk and anytime you're feeling stress, just pick that up and smell that and just think about it. wonderful little prop wonderful probably is going to you're going to remember you're going to keep it buying your purse at desk. So let's talk about the speaker kit. you're traveling all around the world. I'm guessing you have to be really efficient in what you travel with. What's in your speaker bag? What do you what's in that bag of tricks Do you take on the road with you?

Probably the usual stuff always my my my MacBook and all the connectors. What I definitely love when I'm traveling is the headphones. The side that's that's certainly the plane but also when I'm when I'm traveling, what I'm noticing is set. For me it's a little bit easier to you know a lot of my home office to really think about some some bigger projects that he wants to do. And then the headphones definitely work. What I'm doing more and more is making some blocks. So some videos I'm experimenting with it, but with my social media. So now I'm also bringing what we call it the tripods. I have a nice tripod that I'm using. Yeah, I'm not bringing the ladder. But that's something that I have to keep in mind is in advance try to arrange a ladder. Moment even bought one
with the camera. Are you just using your iPhone or your iPhone?

Yeah, so you're really low, low, high tech, but very low weight. It's very easy to travel around. Using hurts. Let me see if I can find after a little Yeah, I like these. You don't know she knows him the loss. Hey, Mark, I make Yes. Actually I met with Julie Julie who is inventor of this and the other week. Some people are not very, really fun with it. But I have to say I'm very happy with it. It's worked for the social media. So bring these are very small. Yeah, that's that's probably the most important things that I bring. And if you can recommend one book to our listeners that you found very useful as a speaker, maybe it could be on the craft side or business more generally, or the industry, what would that book be?

I still loved the book from Dan and chip. He'd been by the stick, made a mistake, he made a mistake. I think that's a very a book with free. It's really helped me to simplify my message. So in they they talk about how you can Why are some messages do they stick another slot? And they give a very easy framework. And then that really helped me to develop my message. And I still use it as a kind of a checklist is as simple as or something unexpected as concrete. Is it? some emotion there and the story? Yeah, that's a book marketing wise, it also worked for me. And I like the book of Frederick. Certainly if you want to work in a more global level, I think his book is very practical. But I think 27 steps to become a global Speaker I think if rather than two hours. It's a great book lots of fantastic ideas and putting there and they all very actionable as well. What about your traveling all the time? Is there an online is a mobile app or online tool that you find very useful for being a nomadic speaker?

Yeah, I have probably the Evernote but most people are using it. That's that's really handy. Well, I use things things as my to do list. I find it quite quite easy one that they update every day. So those are the two biggest one that of us. Not Not Not really one that really sticks out or the new one. Yeah, I'm experimenting with a few now with the videos to get some subtitles yet. rafa.com I'm exploring that one. And he I lost use of work with some freelancers. So you have a few freelancers who helped me in that one. So yeah, unless imagine you woke up tomorrow morning. You can choose any city in the world. So that might be Singapore next night. And wake up in Singapore. And you have to start from scratch though no one knows you. You know no one. What would you do? How would you restart to get your get your your speaking business started?

Yeah, absolutely. First thing that I would do is pick up my tripod, my iPhone and create a little video, create a video mean action talking about my my stuff that they do. Second thing that what I would do probably combination is get a friend get as soon as possible. And again, try to film it, get some recommendations. I think having a good show reel is one of the first thing that that I would start with, and then do a lot of free speeches, you know, even as an experienced speaker, I think Yeah, I call them free. It's not really free because I don't like free but getting business cards, getting recommendations, Oscar referral, those kind of things that would be my marketing thing to start up and build up your network. So those are the two things that that I would do. Definitely. If it would start again. Fantastic. And if people want to connect with you, I mean be to refer you for speaking of Jeanette they know the speak on creativity and change. where's the best place for them to go and do that to learn more about you?

Yeah, that's probably my website which would be civil court leavin.com and by the way, if you translate court leavin court means short living rooms live. So Elsa claimed URL as a little bit easier. Cyril, just with see why are i l? civil, short life.com. also find me. And that's probably the easiest way to find me. You can find a blog. You can find my books and stuff. And feel free to reach out and I'm happy to send you some other stuff how I started my speaking business. Yep. Well, fantastic. So thanks so much for coming on today sharing all about your speakers life and all the journey that you've been on fantastic story, and I'm looking forward to continue to work together and, and we'll be hopefully sharing a stage together at some point in the future. That would be cool. Likewise, thank James.

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