Aug 6, 2020
Public Speaking for Techie's
James Taylor interviews Poornima Vijayashanker and they talked about Public Speaking for Techie's
In today's episode Poornima Vijayashanker talks about Public Speaking for Techie's.
Poornima Vijayashanker is an entrepreneur, engineer, author, and speaker who has made her mark in the tech world. A graduate of Duke University, Poornima was the founding engineer at Mint where she helped build, launch, and scale the product until it was acquired by Intuit. Following the acquisition, Poornima went on to launch Femgineer, an education company for tech professionals and entrepreneurs who want to learn how to build software products and companies. She regularly speaks at industry events around the world and has authored the book, How to Transform Your Ideas into Software Products, as well as co-authoring Present! A Techie’s Guide to Public Speaking with Karen Catlin. Having served as the Entrepreneur in Residence at 500 Startups, Poornima has also lectured at her alma mater’s Pratt School of Engineering.
What we cover:
- Why speaking is a multivitamin
- Public speaking for techie's and the curse of knowledge
- Lack of diversity in keynotes and panels
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Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/public-speaking-for-techies-sl074/
James Taylor
Hi, it's James Taylor, founder of SpeakersU. Today's episode was first
aired as part of International Speakers Summit the world's largest
online event for professional speakers. And if you'd like to access
the full video version, as well as in depth sessions with over 150
top speakers, then I've got a very special offer for you. Just go
to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com,
where you'll be able to register for a free pass for the summit.
Yep, that's right 150 of the world's top speakers sharing their
insights, strategies and tactics on how to launch grow and build a
successful speaking business. So just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com
but not before you listen to today's episode.
Hi there. It's James Taylor. I'm delighted today to be joined by Poornima Vijayashanker. She is an entrepreneur, engineer, author and speaker who has made her mark on the tech world, a graduate of Duke University. Poornima was the founding engineer at mint where she helped build, launch and scale the product until it was acquired by Intuit following acquisition Poornima went on to launch with femme Junya, which is an education company for tech professionals and entrepreneurs who want to learn how to build software products and companies. Now, she regularly speaks at industry events around the world and she has authored the book how to transform your ideas into software products, as well as co authoring present a techies guide to public speaking with Karen Karen Caitlin, having served as an entrepreneur in residence at 500 startups. Poornima has also lectured at our alma mater, which is Pratt School of Engineering. It's my great pleasure to have her join us today. So welcome Poornima
Poornima Vijayashanker
thanks for having me today.
James Taylor
So share with everyone what's going on in your world just now.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Well, we have started our six week online competent communicator
course. And we're in the middle of it. It's great to see so many
first time people who have been speaking for a while, learn a new
approach and apply that and I know this is where a lot of people
realize, wow, this course is tough or this is getting hard. So it's
great to see that there's still Sticking with the program that
they're getting through it, that they're at least diving in to try
our new approach. And that is my sort of day for today is focused
on giving them feedback on that new approach.
James Taylor
I mentioned. You know, obviously, you had this basic set, you've
been very successful career in tech. When did the speaking part of
you get started? When did you find you develop this love of
speaking and speaking to, especially at conferences that you speak
today?
Poornima Vijayashanker
Yeah, well, actually, I have been speaking for a very long time I
in my youth was a very shy kid, and I figured around middle school
that life was going to be hard if I didn't do something to change
that. So I joined my middle school in high school Speech and Debate
Team, and I was really glad that I did you know, it helped me Ace
my college interview, and then go on to ace my first job interview,
and then do more complicated things here in Silicon Valley, like,
evangelize the companies into the startups that I started, help
recruit and pitch investors. For me. public speaking is definitely
a multivitamin and it's Something that Karen Catlin, my co author
and I really evangelize it's, you know, it's a thing that people
don't recognize. And it's definitely hard to get started in,
especially if you have a fear of it, you're not sure if you're an
expert, not sure where to speak. But once you get going, you start
to see a number of benefits, as well as the people on the receiving
end who hear your message. And so I have been applying public
speaking any way I can. And I found that I benefit from it in terms
of a business and building a personal brand. But the people who are
listening also get a chance to connect with me,
James Taylor
and who are those? Do you have a kind of any early mentors and
you're speaking over the particular speakers that you look towards?
These are all I like, I like what they do in terms of how they
present or how they think,
Poornima Vijayashanker
you know, I didn't because I didn't know any better. So when I
started to speak, I, this was back in 2008. There weren't a lot of
resources out there for technical Speaking there were four general
public speaking. And I had learned them again in high school. And
in college, I had a great debate coach who helped me not only with
debate but do things like extemporaneous speaking, and improv
improvisation. So I had a great coach in that capacity. But when I
transitioned into industry, I noticed that one there weren't a lot
of technical folks speaking in general, or the styles is not quite
developed. And two, there weren't a lot of women or other folks
that I could look up to. So I just honestly started to develop my
own style. And then periodically I would come across great
resources. You know, Scott birkins, got a good book. There is
Reynolds who's got that great book on, on doing slide design. And
so I started to pick up elements here and there, but quite frankly,
it wasn't until I was pretty deep in that I realized, Oh, I have
kind of cultivated my own framework from best and worst things that
I've experienced. So I didn't really have somebody that I looked up
to initially or had as a mentor. It was a lot of it was just
audience feedback, and getting a sense of what was working and what
wasn't.
James Taylor
I mean, you think of, I think of some of the best keynotes I've
ever seen. And some of them are actually product keynotes. So I
think, you know, the classic Steve Jobs at the Moscone Center near
where you you're speaking from today, you know, he's a classic, you
know, there's that that but often feels like in, in the kind of
tech world in that kind of Silicon Valley world, that a lot of the
speakers are in the either the marketing the sales or the biz, biz
dev world, they're kind of getting more natural speakers. Are you
starting to see that change now, within the more engineering
community, you know, the people are actually building the stuff and
creating these incredible products actually, you know, coming bit
more To the fool there.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Yeah, it's in the last couple years, just as there's been an
explosion in terms of conferences worldwide for marketing and for
sales and for product. There has definitely been a interest to do
more technical conferences. technical courses have been going on
forever, I think. And in my early career, like around 2004 2005, I
would go to some of these. But there were pretty big gating
factors, you know, you had to really take the time to submit a
proposal, there were a couple major conferences happening at
Moscone Center around the world. And now you're seeing there's a
lot of unconferences. There are smaller regional conferences. There
are conferences that have started to add a technical component. And
so it's been great that there's more and more interest, but as a
result, we need more speakers. And you start to see more technical
folks saying, oh, maybe it's time that I branch out, and I do More
public speaking to recruit to do product demos, or just to showcase
the technical work that I have done in my team has done or my
company's done. So you're starting to see more and more of that.
But I would say, Yeah, for the last 10 years, it's definitely been
on the rise. And I anticipate more technical conferences coming
out, just like there are other conferences in verticals.
James Taylor
So this is the whole Silicon Valley tech sector has also come into
the spotlight a lot recently, in terms of lack of diversity as
conferences I saw, I saw one the other day and I think it was like
40 speakers at this event and there was not a single woman, you get
this. So that's the first kind of like, okay, so I'm getting
because you're coming from an engineering what and there's
obviously there's that there's a strong sense in the engineering
side and take that there needs to be a big rebound in terms of
creating greater diversity, more inclusion there as well. What's
happening when it comes to the more technical conferences and those
kind of events are they Really now having to basically take a look
at what they're doing and completely kind of rethink in terms of
how they're appealing to speakers how they're bringing in speakers
how they're potentially betting speakers.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Yeah, well, I will say this, there's really no excuse because Grace
Hopper celebration, which is the largest technical conference for
women, has over 10,000 attendees and grows every year by probably
20 or more percent. And they don't have a problem getting women to
do technical talks at every level, whether it's entry all the way
up to senior level executive positions and sea level suites, right.
So if they can, if they can manage to scrape at you know, that many
attendees as well as speakers and turn people away, then I think
that there is a big market for getting speakers into some of these
other events. So I push back a little bit in terms of how aware
people are how much of a priority it is for them. For my personal
experience, what I have noticed is there is definitely an interest.
You know, women certainly want to get out and speak. They're
certainly full of doing it. They have to they're either far enough
along in their career or there is even early folks who are like,
there's I have something to share, right. And what I've noticed the
last couple years, is there are conferences that are adopting a
code of conduct in terms of diversity of speakers, diversity across
not only genders, but you know, people of color, etc. And so the
conferences who are more, I would say aware and with it are
adopting these policies, not only to recruit speakers, but also how
they conduct the conference itself. And I think it's getting
getting with the times and recognizing this because the ones that
do end up attracting more attendees, attracting the type of
attendees that they want And it ends up being a more vibrant
conference that lasts for many, many years. So this is something I
think that people have to start to invest in if they are going to
consider doing this conference again, having it be successful and
having it be profitable because at the end of the day of conference
as a business, right,
James Taylor
the other thing I often think about is a speaker's when we speak at
a conference, we keynote a conference, We're often asked by that,
that meeting planner, that event conference organizer to recommend
a speaker for the next year. And I, I was thinking about it a lot,
you know, you and I were in a mastermind group has actually
predominantly female as well in that particular group. And, and I
was thinking about as well as okay, because this question comes in
so often from event planners, like who would you recommend? And I,
I used to, I used to be okay, well, I'd recommend this guy because
he was very similar to me be spoken with a different subject from
me. And so it was, it was I was going into a default position and
without without giving any thought, and it was just like it was
thoughtless. Okay, this person, I know him, I like him, I think he
would do a good job for the client. And it's what it's made me do
as a speaker. And in terms of, you know, my continual development
is having to rethink, okay, I need to have a much broader sense of
who's out there, who's, who's doing like, Great stuff. And so this
is a training for me. I don't know if you'll find finding this in
terms of, because it's so much business is referral based, you
know, for other speakers.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Definitely. And I mean, you have a sense of who the best speakers
are. So, one of the excuses I hear from a lot of folks says, Oh,
well, everyone was just too busy. Like, literally all the women who
know how to speak. We're just too busy.
James Taylor
That day, they were
Poornima Vijayashanker
like, oh, what was it International Women's Day, like, what what
was the reason right? And I think what it means is that a they
don't think about it early on enough because they're waiting until
the last minute, right? It's not Maybe a month or maybe two months
out, or sometimes even two weeks, I've heard so many requests from
people, sometimes even two days before saying, Oh, can you get me
some money, nobody's gonna drop work or even get the time off to
come and speak at your event with that much lead time, right?
You've got to start thinking earlier, three months, six months, if
you want to get on people's calendars, if you want to be taken
seriously and be known as a professional, you know, organizations,
so start to do it earlier on and make that a priority. And then of
course, if you have situations where people say, Oh, I can't do
this, or you know, I just happen to have a conflict, then having
them suggest somebody else, but but the other place is to have your
own watering holes. So for example, earlier this year, my sponsor
actually tasked me with putting on a panel. And, you know, the
sponsor said, Well, here's a panel for you, please moderate it. And
I took one look at that panel, and it was me and I think there was
one other woman and the For guys, and I was like, I can't do this
panel, you know, and I pushed back. And of course, my sponsor and I
have been working together for four years. So I had that ability to
speak up and he is a great ally, had he not, I probably would have
just said, like, sorry, I'm too busy can't make it right. Or you
probably wouldn't be my sponsor. So I took the time and I said,
Look, this panel is just not attractive for these reasons. And if
you want me to moderate this, here's what I want to see. I need you
to cut out at least two spots, and I want to replace them. And I'm
happy to bring you people but what I don't want to see is four guys
and one woman and then me as the moderator, that's not a very
balanced panel. So he kind of tasked cast me with Okay, fine, go
find the people make sure that they can speak here's kind of the
background. And I already had a couple watering holes. You know, I
am part of a couple slack communities. Obviously I have my own
network. I have students that I train, so I have a lot of places
that I can pull from. I still found it a little challenging. I
won't say that people just trickled into me But within a couple
days, I was able to get people to say I'm interested. And then from
there, I went through their profiles to see that they had spoken.
They had either a YouTube video or they had spoken somewhere before
that could vouch for them. And I ended up actually, surprisingly,
getting to women. And then what ended up happening was one of the
guys who was on the panel, I couldn't make it. And so he gave up
his spot to a female colleague, and the panel ended up being five
women or was like four women and one guy, which is kind of
coincidence. We didn't really planned it to be that way. But I
gotta say, what ended up happening was, there was a awesome
audience turnout, we were pretty much sold out. The people that
came out said, Oh, somebody really put a lot of thought into this
panel. And a lot of women came out saying, Oh, I looked at the
roster. I saw that it was a great representation of women who are
doing pretty advanced stuff. I mean, We had somebody who was doing
augmented and virtual reality, we had someone who was a product
manager for the last 1015 years. So these were not like, oh, let's
just find somebody who's a recent grad or flexibly up the street,
these were experienced individuals, right? Taking the time to think
through who needs to be there, why and how that's going to reflect
the audience and how they perceive this panel was important. So
you've got to have somebody that's going to push back a little, as
well as pluck the folks and say, these are the people that need to
be on this. This is how it's going to operate. And that, of course,
takes time, I understand. But if you don't put in that effort, then
you know, people are gonna be like, Oh, this is just like any OLED
panel. You know, why bother? And you're not going to get the
response that you want to see.
James Taylor
Yeah, I mean, I think I was I heard from a speaker in Singapore the
other day, saying, Yes, it is. I'm actually getting home our
speaker together, we're going to refuse to be on all matters.
panels we get things like this normal panels to be basically
declined now, and we say okay, we think and we get it sometimes
it's it's just, they haven't thought they're just not. It's just
like it's like as you say it's last minute, I'll just, you know,
they're not really thinking in any kind of way in terms of what
potentially is going to be in the best interest of the audience in
terms of having diversity of ideas and those people diversity of
ideas as well. I'm wondering, so my wife is a an engineer. She's a
mechanical engineer by trade. So I often test out my keynotes and
her because her brain is very different to mine. She thinks much
more analytically, you know, she's into the detail and stuff like
that as well. So I'm very lucky I've kind of got that person that
I've got that techie person to test out things on. For someone that
doesn't have that. How should they be if they're working out their
keynote and then knowing they know they're going to be speaking to
more technical audience does have to be engineers, maybe scientists
are more technical audience anyway. How should they be thinking
about preparing If they're not necessarily a technical person
themselves,
Poornima Vijayashanker
so I read a really interesting book recently by Angie Panzer, and
it's all about writing for the workplace. And I thought that the
takeaways apply to speaking as well. And the one thing that she
mentioned in her book was how a lot of times when we write, if the
writing is very dense, if it's convoluted, then the reader looks at
the writer and says, Oh, this person, just, you know, isn't a very
good writer, and isn't a very polished person or professional
person, because of the cognitive load they put on the reader. Now,
if the writer instead uses simple language, despite what level the
reader may be at, right, the reader immediately gets it they kind
of flow through the book, and they're thinking wow, I totally
understand all these concepts. I was able to finish the book you
know, cover to cover and they feel empowered, right. Same same
rules apply to being a Speaker, it doesn't matter whether you are
going in front of a technical audience or a lay person audience,
you have to take the time to say, I'm presenting this information,
there may be jargon, there may be concepts that are or things that,
you know, I discovered that other people may not know, right, the
curse of knowledge. So how can I best convey it in a way that's
easily digestible? Not patronizing, you know, so that's the tone
depends, and depends on how you how you phrase it and how you
deliver it in your tone. But if you can incorporate that, then
audiences are going to feel like wow, this was a very polished
speaker, a professional speaker, a knowledgeable speaker, because
you've done all the work for them. So regardless of who your
audience is, whether it's technical or non technical, I always
encourage people to do that. And it does work. That's the thing
like once you start to do it, you're like, wow, I felt like I had
stripped a lot of the content out I made the message simpler. I had
a smaller table. takeaways are fewer takeaways. And people were
thankful, you know, nobody said it was too watered down. And nobody
said it was too dense. It was just right. And that takes a level of
practice. But I would encourage your people in your audience to
think about that, how can I take my message, regardless of the
audience, and make sure that it's simple, because the people on the
receiving end are going to are going to judge the quality of the
speaker based on how simple you make it.
James Taylor
It's really that that line, which someone said, Kevin, which famous
author said, it's Sorry, I'm having to write you a long letter, I
didn't have time to write your shorter letter, because the writing
the shorter takes so much more work. And you have to really think,
you know, much, much more intensely about how do I want to distill
this down. I'm also wondering, now you're saying this, I'm
reflecting on some of the some of the speakers I really like and
they often speak as three different levels so that there's so even
if I'm not attending, I go and listen to them speak. I understand
cuz they're speaking of the usual most consistent and things like
that. So, you know, they'll relate it to maybe foods or things I
get as a non technical person. But then there's another level up,
which is maybe the more executive level and that executive
executive level to certain using certain concepts there. And then
there's another level again, when they using whether it's in terms
of certain jargon, or they're giving clues. They're giving a sense
at this point. I know what I'm talking about here. But I'm also
having to create a create a talk and I think that's, that's must be
a fine balance to be able to, to get a get a message across in that
way.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Sure. Well think about this way, even your executive who has a
million things going on in their head, they, they've got thousands
of people pitching them, they've got emails coming in, they have
their own decisions to make, right even if you were to take the
time and put something into a simple analogy, or contexts that
they're going to get in the first you know, 30 seconds or three
minutes. You have just now saved them from having to do that load,
right that that cognitive load. And so even for the folks who are
like that, I find that it's very, very helpful to make the jargon
of the company to demonstrate that you know what they're talking
about, right? So if you say something like, Oh, yes, I understand
that this company you guys use, okay, ours okrs mean, blah. Here's
how I think you know, what I'm talking about relates to that. So
you can you can kind of get your foot in the door and demonstrate
credibility. But again, think about what that person on the
receiving end goes through on a day to day and really take the time
to say, How can I present this information? Because my sense is
you're going to want to get something out of that relationship
later on. You may want to go on to do consulting, you may want to
get hired on again, as a keynote speaker, you may want a referral,
right? And so when you've done that heavy lifting for them, Then
all of a sudden, they're like, Oh, this person was fantastic,
right? And it, it becomes this thing that people, like, I can't put
my finger on it. But that's essentially what they're doing. And,
and storytelling is one format to do that in analogies or another.
But you've really got to think about that cognitive load on your
audience member.
James Taylor
I'm thinking that's sometimes the benefit of being the closing
keynote speaker, as opposed to opening is if you can get in a few
days early to the event, and you can spend time and then you
quickly get to hear the language of, of the delegates, what the
toys but if it's an industry you don't know about, there's
downsides, obviously, to be in a closing keynote, a lot of people
thinking about leaving, where am I going to go? Like, I've got to
catch my flight, but there's definitely some, some benefits there.
So you're, I know you have this this, this course, which is really
helping, the more more techies, you know, speak whether that's
because they have to go and present product launches or whether
they have to present to the teams or selling an idea, maybe to a
client as well. What when when you start getting you know, working
with those people When people say kind of going through that
course, what is the what is the aha moment? Do you see from them
where they suddenly go? Oh, okay. Oh, this this concept is just
opened up his knees changed my paradigm on how to speak what was
the thing that you tend to find there?
Poornima Vijayashanker
Well, I think the first is because so many of these folks don't
tend to be presenters on a day to day basis, like a salesperson or
a marketer would be their first resistance is Oh, I'm just not a
natural speaker. Right? And, and getting them over that initial
hump of you're going to be nervous. Everybody's nervous nerves are
okay, here's how to manage that nervousness is the first hurdle.
And so we do that through some pretty simple exercises that have
nothing to do with anything technical, right? We just, we make it
really, really easy. One of the first exercises I do is describe to
me your favorite dessert, and that's something anybody can do.
Right? And then they see Oh, that was it was kind of challenging to
do, but I did it and it works. makes them realize that they can
achieve something. The next phase is, I'm not an expert, right?
Because even though people may be technical, they may think that
they are not as big as the next person. Or maybe they're not far
enough along in their career, or they don't have something novel
and earth shattering to share. So the second thing that we help
them do is really extract their expertise by looking at what
they've already done, and realizing that there are people out there
who may be less experienced or less knowledgeable than them. And
those are the folks that want to learn. And so that's kind of the
second breakthrough moment they have. And then the third is
explaining to them just like building a product, no writing
software or hardware or whatever they're working on has a process,
there is a process to creating a talk. Once they get over that,
then they're like, Oh, well, now I know like how to put this
together, but up until then, they feel like it's a mystery and that
you have to be really good. charismatic and you have to be leading
like, a billion dollar company like jobs in order to do it. So. So
once we get to walk them through these three phases, they
immediately have a sense of I can do this going forward. And yes,
I'm still going to be nervous. Yes, there's going to be moments
where I'm going to need to break down abstract concepts, I'm going
to need to practice my talk, right? But those I would say, are like
the three pillars that we build on, so that by the end, everybody
in our course, is doing at least a five minute lightning talk. And
it's, it's pretty transformative, you know, recording them
throughout. And then at the end, sometimes they say, Oh, you know,
I was really nervous. I don't know how I did. So we make them go
back and watch it. And the next day, they're like, Oh, my gosh, I
didn't recognize myself. It's like what the majority of students
say. So it's fantastic to be part of that process. And to see how
awakened they become and to see that they can, they can do it and
they just, they just needed somebody to kind of guide them along
and to help hold them accountable through each of those steps.
James Taylor
Now you're in the land of tech. So I want to make a couple of quick
fire questions here. What is that app that you're using just now
the or the online tool? Do you find really useful for yourself?
Especially for the speaking part of you it could be in terms of how
you prepare or it could be in terms of how you get your speaking
gigs or deliver on your on your speaking What? Are there any tools
you really enjoy using?
Poornima Vijayashanker
Yeah, unfortunately, I don't have a lot of tools that I use to get
engagements I find that most of my engagements I have to just do
sort of the general sales process of cold calling or cold outreach
to people through email following up. I will say that what has
helped a lot this year in particular, is my YouTube channel. So
having and that I've been building for the last four years. So it's
kind of funny that it was only recently that I'm starting to get
more and more interest. And the thing about my youtube channel is I
have a variety in In terms of the content that I produce, I have
some short videos that are about a minute to five minutes long. I
have longer videos that are interviews that I do for my monthly or
weekly web. And then I have ones that are probably 15 or so
minutes. I also take any previous talks that I've done, and I put
them up there so that people can see. And that ends up being one a
really great source of interest and to credibility, because at the
end of the day, if somebody is paying me to come and speak at their
conference, they want to know, okay, can this person actually
deliver? Yeah, and having that video, no matter how long or short
it is, can get your foot in the door and also help close the deal,
versus a lot of people I know, don't have a video, and it doesn't
have to be something highly produced. You know, one of the earliest
videos I did was just me standing in front of a camera speaking to
people talking to them about what Fungineer was. I was about three
minutes. Long as if you can create a simple explainer video, you
can use that in so many places, certainly on YouTube, but in your
email signature, you know, as people request a sample, and I feel
like that is really, really critical having that piece of video,
and if you can emulate a audience setting, because I have a couple
where I'm speaking to people, getting those audience reactions can
be valuable, because a lot of a lot of organizers want to see how
the audience reacts to what you're saying. So I also have my like
TEDx talk in there. And that's very helpful.
James Taylor
No, that's gramming I think YouTube is such a powerful place.
Because, you know, when I talk to meeting planners, it's like the
number one if they're looking for, let's say, a speaker on
innovation, that that they go to YouTube first is that it's the
place to go. And then the other interesting when they'll if they're
looking at speakers, because of the way that the the, the
recommendation engine works on YouTube. If you've got your tagging,
right, and your titles and a bunch of other things right, then you
can actually get seen by the people who have Wherever you whoever
you know that there will be a guru in your topic, you could get
seen, you know, after that video, you know the recommended videos
as well. So I think that's great. I think that's it. That's a great
suggestion. What about books you mentioned Scott Burke and his book
was a great book on on speaking, it was another book. It doesn't
have to be on speaking, but maybe it could be on. It could be on,
you know, the world of tech. It could be some of it some of the
topics that you talk on.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Yeah, well, actually, right now I'm diving into a Patsy rodenburg
book on presence, the second circle book, and I did that because I
understand how to be present with my audience. I've been doing this
for so long, but I need to be able to convey that it to my
students, and I need to have a resource to do that. So I've
actually found her book really helpful, because she very clearly
explains why some people kind of get stuck in their own head or
their maybe two outward, you know, it's sort of the overly salesy
person or the old Really bubbly person? And how do you kind of rein
that in and present with your audience? And again, that's where you
develop the connection with your audience. And so for me, I'm, I'm
currently reading that, and I think it's I think it's a great read.
So I would recommend it for people who have maybe started speaking,
but they feel stilted, or maybe they don't feel as connected with
audiences, or if they're just looking to say, hey, how can I move
better in my own body? How can I be a little bit more dynamic of a
speaker? I think it's a great read for them to get started on.
James Taylor
Great. We'll put a link here as well. What about if you were to
let's make you wake up tomorrow morning. You have to start from
scratch. No one knows who you are. You've never been booked to
speak before. You have your LinkedIn profile is being wiped clean.
So what would you do? How would you restart especially the speaking
part of your business in your career?
Poornima Vijayashanker
I honestly say I would go back to basics and basics for me. We're
doing some in house training with my team. So when I was at mint,
one of the things I did early on was train all the employees
because I was literally the first engineer there, right? So I had
to sit down with them and explain, here's the architecture, here's
how you get started. So and that's a very kind audience. It's your
peers, you can't really mess up and they're not going to grade you
if you're doing a lot of thumbs up verbal tics, etc. So I started
there. And then from that point, I thought, okay, I wonder if I can
go out and take this information and spread it to other people. So
I actually approached unconferences first, because the thing about
unconferences is there's no I mean, they have standards, but
there's no high barrier. You don't have to sit down and spend hours
and hours crafting your proposal talking to a bunch of organizers.
You literally come up with a topic, you throw something up there
and then now people have started voting on what they would like to
see but still It's pretty simple, and it's very casual. So you can
then get an audience of about 510 or 15 people to come to your
talk, and start, start there, maybe get a few testimonials from the
folks who attended so that they have a sense so that you have them
to then go out and get more speaking engagements. But but that's
how I would start, I think I would just go back to what I had
originally done, because for me, I think that that's a very organic
way to do it. And it's also a way where you're improving as you go
along. Right? You're kind of starting in a place where you feel
safe. Because a lot of people, you know, they're like, Oh, I want
to speak at a conference and then all of a sudden they get really
nervous, right? So start where you feel safe. go from there,
there's no there's nothing wrong and doing baby steps. And then
once you get to a level where you're like, Oh, I could give the
same talk again and again, I could do it at conferences, etc. Then
start reaching out to people But I would, I would kind of follow a
bad approach. The key thing though, is setting a milestone setting
a goal and saying, I'm going to do at least one talk quarter talk
of sense for your schedule. I think consistency is really the key.
And like anything else, it's that consistent practice getting out
there and doing the speaking. And you'll find that as you start to
do it, it has a snowball effect, more people want to reach out to
you more people are aware of you. And you then get to be in a
position where you decide, you know, what are the things that I
want to invest my time in? Where do I want to speak? Who do I want
to reach out to
James Taylor
pretty we could speak about loads of other things related to this
topic, especially in terms of being an evangelist and influence so
within your industry and within your, with your company, because
there's so many different ways to go, where would be the best place
if people want to kind of learn more? Where should they be going
now, if you want to learn more about you and the work that you're
doing, and maybe we can take those next steps,
Poornima Vijayashanker
feel free to reach out to me on Twitter. I'm @Poornima
James Taylor
Well, I love that we're going to have that link here. And I'm
actually going to be reading that book as well because I want to
pick up all these, especially when you're talking about process as
well. And I love I love when we can start breaking things down into
process. So pretty much thank you so much. It's been a I love just
when we have we have our conversations as well. And I think you're
doing amazing, amazing things. I look forward to actually catching
you on stage at some point really soon as well. And I wish you all
the best is engineering creases. Thank you.
Poornima Vijayashanker
Thanks for having me.
James Taylor
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