May 14, 2020
First Principles Of Speaking
In today’s episode Jim Cathcart talks about The First Principles Of Speaking.
Ever wanted to know what the first principles of speaking are? You know, the timeless strategies for building a successful speaking business? In today’s interview James Taylor interviews speaker Jim Cathcart about:
- The giants of professional speaking
- What really matters in the speaking business
- Creating a body of work
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Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/sl062-the-first-principles-of-speaking-with-jim-cathcart/
James Taylor
Hi, it's James Taylor, founder of SpeakersU. Today's episode was
first aired as part of International Speakers Summit the world's
largest online event for professional speakers. And if you'd like
to access the full video version, as well as in depth sessions with
over 150 top speakers, then I've got a very special offer for you.
Just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com, where you'll be able to
register for a free pass for the summit. Yep, that's right 150 of
the world's top speakers sharing their insights, strategies and
tactics on how to launch grow and build a successful speaking
business. So just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com but not
before you listen to today's episode.
Hey there, it's James Taylor and I'm delighted today to welcome Jim Cathcart. Jim Cathcart CSP. CPA is one of the most award winning professional speakers on planet Earth. His TEDx video is in the top 1% or 130 130,000 videos. And in addition to this, Jim is in the speaker Hall of Fame. Say And Monty Hall of Fame and has written 20 books. He speaks several weeks a year all across China and his entrepreneur in residence for the School of Management at California Lutheran University. And if this wasn't enough, he's also a professional guitarist, Mountain Trail runner, and motorcyclist. And it's my great pleasure to have Jim with us today. So welcome, Jim.
Jim Cathcart
It's wonderful to be with you, James. Thank you.
James Taylor
So share with everyone what's happening in your world just now.
Jim Cathcart
Oh, war. Wow. Let's see. Well, the mountain trail running. I did
that yesterday morning. And then I've been planning my next trip to
China, which is August 26. And I'll be doing two or three cities
over there speaking to thousands of people at a time with a
translator standing at my elbow. So I do one paragraph, another
paragraph. All day long. That's a little awkward at first, but you
get the rhythm down after a while and I've got seven books in the
works. I've been written and published 20 books. Let's see. I'm
looking for co authors. So if there's someone in my field who knows
me and my works, and they're interested in collaborating with me,
then I'd be interested in hearing from them and I'm playing rock
and roll spent a couple hours doing that with colleagues yesterday
and God's great beers delicious.
James Taylor
So life is good. So I mentioned you are a CPA, he became Hall of
Fame. So for people that don't haven't heard of CPA, what is it and
the history
Jim Cathcart
it comes from an organization called the National Speakers
Association, which is a US based but now worldwide, as well.
association of people who speak for a living you know, speakers and
trainers and keynote speakers. And consultants and entertainers and
all kinds of people from all walks of life. They're about 5004 or
5000 members in the US, and several thousand more around the world.
And I'm a past national president of that group. I joined back
before the invention of dirt. I joined in 1976. I was 30 years old.
I'll save you the math. I'm 72. And I joined in 76, when we had
about 200 members and then many years later became their national
president. They bestow an order of honor each year called the
speaker Hall of Fame Award and its designation is CP a II Council
of beers award for excellence. And then CSP is certified speaking
professional which is an earned designation rather than an award.
And you get that through years of study and practice and success.
And that little fella over in the corner you can see over my
shoulder, there's a statute. That's Cabot Robert. He's the founder
of the National Speakers Association. He passed away about age 97,
several years ago, but he started it all. And that's an award they
give each year to sort of a lifetime achievement award to the
person that feel as behave most like our founder in supporting and
encouraging others.
James Taylor
So I was I was in India last week. And while I was there, I was
speaking for some other conferences and events and clients about
why I was there, I managed to go and hang out with some of the
members of the professional Speakers Association of India, which is
wonderful member of the global speakers Federation just started. We
were just talking about our speakers we admired as you can look
for, and I mentioned a couple of other, the older names from the I
guess from the world of speaking and Match some of these names in a
second. And they hadn't heard. So I thought one thing I'd love to
do on this call because because you have this this kind of deep
history with the speaker's community, and with the National
Speakers Association, who take us back a little bit for those who
are some of those kind of early speakers that maybe are not with us
anymore, that any speaker that's watching this just now, they
should go find those YouTube videos, find those audio audio tapes,
if there's only tapes, mp3, they should go and check them out,
because that maybe we've kind of forgotten what the what the game
is about speaking,
Jim Cathcart
right? Yeah. By the way, last week in Denver, Colorado, I was at
the global speakers Federation meeting. I was I was making a
presentation on behalf of the new China Speakers Association that
I'm co founding with, with people there. When I joined the NSA
National Speakers Association, there were, as I mentioned about 200
members. Well, all my heroes were among those 200 members. And my
speaker heroes were the Great's of the day. You know, people like
Zig Ziglar, who was new at the time, and Zig passed away now but he
became a good friend of mine over time. Og, man Dino, oh gee, man
Dino. His real name was Augustine men Dino and he was the author of
many, many million million dollar books, the best known of which is
the greatest salesman in the world. Gosh, W Clement stone was the
owner of combined insurance company of North America and it made
well it actually became the sort of the bill gates of his day was
the richest man in America for a while, and I got to know him and
work with him briefly. Earl Nightingale was my personal mentor, the
main one that inspired me he was on radio more than on stages, but
enormously influential, you should look up Earl Nightingale comma
the Strangest Secret And there were YouTubes of these folks. You
can see them, you know, gosh, Dr. Kenneth McFarland, he seldom
mentioned but he was one of the people that inspired all those
other people I just mentioned, and I had a chance to briefly know
him. Have it, Robert, the not Roberts. But Robert, like a first
name. That's his last name Cabot, Robert. He was the founder of the
National Speakers Association. There's one more guy who was the one
who invited me in. And that's bill go g o v. And Bill was the first
president of NSA. And just funny as could be, he was a sales
motivator. And all of those people, I was standing around looking
up to them, you know, and thinking, gosh, could I touch the hem of
your garment? And I went to my first convention, and I was I'm a
rosy cheeks, 30 year old newbie, right? And I'm there around all
these people that I've known about how Heard recordings off. And I
just, I was just amazed to be there and a little odd. And so I went
to all of the meetings of the convention that I could. But there
was one meeting that I couldn't afford it was $40 extra. Whoa, in
1977 $40 extra was a lot of money. And so I went across the street
and bought a hot dog from a street vendor. And I came back and I
stood outside the meeting room for the $40 banquet. And as the door
would open, people would come and go, I would listen to the
speakers speaking. And I remember when people would come out, I
would hold the door for them for a moment and let it close more
slowly so I could hear a little bit more, because as soon as it was
closed out, closed out again, you know, so long since finished my
hot dog but thinking back on that now I've been the the president
of NSA received the golden gavel award from Toastmasters
International, I've been celebrated all over the world as a
successful speaker in one way or another, you got 20 books and 3200
paid speeches to my credit now. And reflecting back on that. I
still feel a little bit like that guy inside, you know, the one
that was standing in the hallway. I still feel like what an amazing
privilege to be in this and to be getting away with being
considered an insider.
James Taylor
But But it's interesting because you obviously have this interest
like I do in music. And often they have these documentaries where
they look at the the musical, the tree, the musical tree, oh, bang.
And, and I often wonder, I don't know if someone's done this in
terms of the speakers because there's oftentimes I'll hear a
speaker who's a new speaker, rather the new speaker I'll hear them
say a line. But I'll be having a conversation with them. And
they'll say, I really like what you did. Then he said, Oh, I got
that from this person. Right? It actually it didn't come originally
came from like Zig Ziglar, or it came from somewhere else is
kind
Jim Cathcart
of Zig got it from, you know, Norman Vincent Peale, or Dr. Peale.
Got it from Napoleon Hill who wrote thinking grow rich or whatever,
you know, it goes all the way back. For others. We've been able to
trace these things back is to the late 1800s, early 1900s, a man
named Samuel smiles. And he was one of the early early success
gurus in America. And another one that came along that was a huge
influence. Elbert Hubbard Hubbard died of when they sunk the
Lusitania ages ago, back the beginning of World War One, that
timeframe. Yeah, it's just an amazing legacy.
James Taylor
So now you're going out to you in China a lot. You're helping set
up the China's Speakers Association, and which is, obviously,
there's a whole new flourishing of new countries bringing new
Speakers Association, lots of new speakers coming up. What are some
of the what are the big differences that you notice a new speaker
starting now as opposed to when you when you were first getting
started? And also what some of the the opportunities, some things
that you didn't you didn't have that the speaker today has?
Jim Cathcart
well consider that when I started. I had been a trainer, I was
teaching other people's courses and I thought this is fun. I like
this. I don't want to be a teacher in a school system. But I but I
love teaching and I love helping people succeed. But there was no
internet at all. There was no there were no cell phones. Everything
was home phones, you know dial phones, or pay phones. We put in the
coins which to a lot of people Today is a foreign concept phone
books. What what's a phone book, you know, this was before fax
machines. So there was no email. People if you wanted to
communicate it with snail mail only you write a letter or you take
a document, you put it now envelope, lick it, stamp it, take it to
the post office or give it to your post man. And, and they were all
men at the time. And then, you know, you wait. So the time gap
between wanting or intending something, and achieving or receiving
it was huge compared to today. I mean, this morning I i've been
online I've communicated with probably 25 or 30 different people
direct one to one communication, not real time, because they'll
probably read it later today or maybe even tomorrow. But they were
able to send me a message and I got back to them. Like that. Plus,
if I needed information before responding, I went on line. Siri,
hey, what's James Taylor's middle name? And what's his jacket size
right now and and she probably knows that she's searching for that
as we speak. By the way, I know Siri. honest truth. I know
personally no Siri, the lady that made voices in Zurich. Her name's
Karen Jacobson. She lives in New York and she is the Australian
accented voice of Siri. She's also the GPS girl who's in a billion.
Let that sink in GPS systems around the world. She's the one that
says recalculating. Yep. So what's the difference today and then
then it was slower then. You had to go to the library to do
research. physically go to the library. Today, you can find answers
instantly while you're sitting at the dinner table, which is rude.
But possible, and that Wow, what a different world. Now you say
okay, yeah, but there's so much more competition today. Granted,
there is when I became a professional speaker, motivational
speakers we're not even known Have you would tell someone, I'm a
motivational speaker and trainer, what's that? Well, I deliver
speeches and you know, teach people success methods that help them
do better. Really, people pay for that? You know, I mean, honestly,
it was a there was no file in people's head for that data. And
today, everybody says, you may like Tony Robbins, you know, yeah.
And who I know, by the way, you know, I've done a firewalk with
him. I've had lunch with him and been around him a half dozen
times. And he's probably the best known because he kind of a rock
star in my field. But today, the opportunity is just enormous
because people already believe at all that you is a good idea. I
had to sell that idea. Because people say no and I graduated
school. I'm done learning I'm going to work now. And companies
would say no, we don't bring in outside trainers, you're not in our
field. What could you teach us? Well, I could teach you sales
techniques. I could teach you effective listening how to be a
better leader, how to not know. You don't know our business. And so
today, heck, you can know somebody's business fairly well in an
hour. Just doing web searches, you know, we know it well enough to
at least talk intelligently about it and ask the right questions.
So today, I think it's easier but there's so many others out there
you've got to you got to really be the real deal and stand out and
do your homework and, and be outcome oriented for your client. You
got to honestly want to help Zig Ziglar had a famous quote, people
don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
Well, I've altered that just a little bit. To make it more directly
applicable, people don't care what you know, until they know that
you care. So if you sincerely care about helping other people,
today, there are more ways to do it more easily and more rapidly
than there ever have been in all recorded history.
James Taylor
So we now have obviously a lot more speed as the velocity is a lot
faster, which obviously increases competition because yourself and
you know, the even the speakers before you the the Auckland dinos
and Zig Ziglar as they kind of laid the groundwork, they were the
path founders there as well. But I'm also wondering, what you know,
people will like scientists will often talk about first principles,
things don't really change or someone like Charlie Munger, who's
Warren Buffett's business partner, right? Well, he says, always
look at what the first principles, you know, what's the what's the
things that remain? So what are some of those first principles that
regardless of whether you are a speaker in 1960, or you were the
speaker and now in 2020, that don't really change
Jim Cathcart
that. That's a great question. By the way, whenever I'm doing
speaker schools and I do that pretty frequently teach other
speakers how to do their, what they do. Um, the first thing I start
with is I tell them, Look, let's talk about what matters. The
speaker doesn't matter. The audience doesn't matter. The message
doesn't matter. And they go away, wait, wait, hold it, there's
nothing left to wait for it. What matters or at least matters most
all those things matter. But what matters most is what the audience
can do with the message from that speaker. So that's a first
principle, the only thing that really justifies all these people
coming together. And you being in front of them with a message is
whether they can benefit from the message or not. Because if you're
just there to tell stories and put on a show, then bill yourself as
an entertainer and get a smaller fee, or become a big, big
celebrity and get a large fee. But if you're there as a speaker,
professional speaker, your job is not to make sounds is to have an
impact on the listeners to make a difference for them. So someone
says, Jim, you're a motivational speaker, motivate me? And I tell
them no, and they say what? So motives aren't something you give
people, there's something you stimulate that live within people. If
If I come to you and I put a gun to your head and ask for your
money, if you don't want to continue to live, the guns not a
stimulus, it's not motivating you. So you're just saying Take your
best shot, right? But if you want to stay alive, you'll probably
give me your money. Now, I didn't motivate you. The desire to live
is what motivated you. And the gun was just a stimulus that
threatened the desire to live. Right? So how do you motivate
employees find out what they want, find out what they care about,
find out how they'd like to be treated, find out what makes them go
home at the end of the day, saying, Man, that was a good day. I'm
so glad I work here. Or wait till I tell you what I was able to do
for a customer today. You know, when you find those motives inside
your people, then you can stimulate those motives with the right
kind of actions, right kind of rewards, right kind of incentives,
things like that, and the right kind of human treatment. You know,
most people don't leave when they leave a company when they quit.
They don't leave the company, they leave a person. They leave
somebody they don't want to work with anymore. And look at it that
way, it makes things a whole lot simpler and easier to understand.
Oh, here's another first principle. Customer Service should be
given, not pursued. Customer Loyalty should be given, not pursued.
So when you say we want to increase customer loyalty, I'd say
great. How are you going to be more loyal to your customers? And
they say to me No, no, no, you don't get it. We want the customers
to be more loyal test. Okay, got to start somewhere. How are you
going to be more loyal to them? Like when on the days when they're
not buying? What are you going to do that makes them know that you
care? No, Jim, you don't get it. We just want them to buy from us
again next time. Yeah, yeah, that's called greed and selfishness.
Right. Let's talk about customer loyalty. What would make somebody
say I am so glad I do business with this person or this company.
The way they're treated and the way you honor your word.
James Taylor
And sometimes these, the unexpected. I mean, I think some of the
actually, even some of the bureaus that I work with is bureaus.
the good ones that are you know, that there's some things that
they're just, they'll see something and they'll just, they'll send
some something to me, they email me something. And it's nothing
about it's not transactional in any way. But they know I'm
interested in that or they know that my partner is interested in
something just now and it's and it can help grow up it can help
grow our business. So it's just about showing Ron Kaufman the
speaker, he talks about he talks about careology which I love.
Yeah.
Jim Cathcart
Very, very dear friend of mine. Yes. He
James Taylor
talks about his idea of moving away. We can just be in customer
service, but actually what his customers have you break it all down
is Caring is really a very, very deep level.
Jim Cathcart
One of the books that I'm best known for is this one, relationship
selling. And the whole idea of relationship selling is not just
being nice to people, that would be courteous selling, I guess,
relationship selling is based on the idea that business is about
serving people and gaining profit by doing so. So business is all
about making the world a better place and being rewarded for having
done that. So relationship selling assumes a relationship is an
asset or it could be a liability. But if you look at all your
connections with with all your customers and would be customers, as
the beginning of an enduring, long term relationship, then yes, you
can intelligently cultivate each of those connections to where
there's an acquaintance And then from an acquaintance to an
affinity or you know, you like each other, trust each other a
little bit. And then over time you get to where you rely on each
other. And then you don't ever want to lose each other, you know,
so you can take it from just I see you, I'm not a threat to you,
you're not a threat. To me, that's the basic beginning of a
possible relationship to I do until death do us part, you know, and
between those two extremes, there's a whole lot of trust building.
And you don't build trust from the outside you earn it and it's
given from the inside so the other person always controls whether
there's trust being bestowed or not.
James Taylor
And has as the the whole the area of selling in selling your
speaking programs wherever they may be. Has that changed
significantly over the years or are we still Is it still pretty
much a very similar type of thing you the individual techniques and
may have to But fundamentally, the strategy is the same.
Jim Cathcart
Well, fundamentally, the strategy is the same, but the steps
required are so vastly different. Like I used to make, I don't know
how many phone calls a day, but I was in a typical year delivering
about 120 speeches in different cities around the country. And I
was mostly domestic us back then. But I was constantly on the
telephone. And I would call a company, you know, just completely
out of the blue, I would call someone for the first time ever and
say, Excuse me, do you hold conventions for your company or your
industry? Well, yes, we do. Well, which department handles that?
Oh, that comes from the executive department. Okay. Would you
please transfer me to them? So I get transferred to the executive
department and I've got my own little checklist of the questions I
need to ask not a script, but a guide, you know, kind of like
speech notes, but not a speech script. I would I would talk about
meetings and I would ask them, Do they ever use outside speakers?
And what is the purpose of the of the meeting typically? And how do
people respond? And what do you consider, you know, the most
successful recent meeting you help? So I would have to interview
people quite a bit just to find out, is there a possibility they're
going to book an outside speaker, and most of them didn't. And I
had about five sales to make sell them on the concept of using an
outside speaker on the the belief that teaching soft skills like
human human relations skills, and such would be a useful thing.
Instead of teaching the latest engineering technology, I had to
persuade them that having an outsider who was beginning to
understand their business could still benefit them because he's
teaching universal principles, and then teach them or convince them
that a keynote speech could lead to a seminar could lead to a group
Discussion could lead to everybody reading a book and discussing
the book and applying it in there that about you know, so I had all
these things to convince them off and I was selling audio cassettes
and they had reel to reel they had record players and they had
eight tracks. And so I had to sell them not only the recordings,
but the idea that listening to a recording could teach you
something because that was not considered a given. And then I have
a kick to sell them a cassette player and batteries. I honestly
did. I had to sell a cassette player and batteries so they could
consume my product.
James Taylor
As I'm hearing you talk about this chip, I'm just thinking, Wow, we
have it so easy now online courses, online memberships. We I could
think of an idea this morning. I could film it this afternoon and
have it being sold later this evening directly to the car.
Jim Cathcart
You could be sitting there saying okay, I want to sell to IBM Corp.
gration or Apple or somebody, you know that some huge enterprise,
that's okay I want to sell to Amazon what, you know what are the
principles? And you're asking Siri what are the principles of
enterprise selling? And she comes back with a whole bunch of
websites and you click on there and there's articles on when
selling to a huge enterprise. This is what's different from selling
one to one to a small business. And then you say, Okay, well how do
I find the headquarters office of Apple corporate and you know,
Apple computers, and who's in charge of their training department
thing, and it's there. Wow.
James Taylor
But regardless of whether you're doing it back then, or whether
you're, you're doing, you know, kind of selling now as I'm looking
through in terms of strategy, you know, you got moving things from
suspects to qualifying to prospects to come estimate to reflect
customer and referral. So some other things stay the same. So
there's an there's an intent, it has to be you say like an
intentionality. To this there has to have to have a system.
Jim Cathcart
That comes back to my earlier statement you asked about first
principles in speaking. And I said, it's about what the audience
can do with your message. In other words, it's about serving
people. Well, the same thing is true in selling. If you are there
as a partner in problem solving, if you are looking for people to
help instead of people to persuade, then you will be welcomed more
often than rejected. But the key to it is your mindset. You've got
to in your heart and mind, honestly want to be a value to someone
else. And be willing to find a creative way to do that so that you
can get compensated. And so if you go in as a partner in problem
solving, you can talk to anybody whether you have a sale in mind or
not. generate some pretty amazing conversations. I was once on the
plane next to Kenny Ortega. Kenny Ortega was the man who produced
the opening and closing ceremonies of the Winter Olympics in Salt
Lake City. He's also the guy who designed the orchestration of the
fountains in Las Vegas in front of Bellagio hotel, and produced the
movie. This is it with Michael Jackson. And he was he's an amazing
guy. So I'm sitting on a plane flying from LA to Las Vegas. And he
sits down next to me and we just start chatting. And I said, so
what's what's your field? He said, Well, I, I create things. So
really, what kind of things and he told me those things. And I
thought for a minute and I said, the opening and closing ceremonies
of the Olympics. Wow. I said I would think That the biggest
challenge was keeping the flame alive inside each of the people. In
other words, keeping the spirit of the Olympics, foremost in their
minds and hearts, through all the 10s of thousands of people from
all the countries all over the world, keeping that one central
focus in everybody was probably your biggest challenge. And he
looked at me and his mouth dropped open. He said, Nobody notices
that. He said, that's exactly what the job was. He said, my biggest
challenge was keeping everybody engaged like that. Wow. He said,
Here's my card. If I'd never be helpful, give me a call. Well,
okay. Now imagine If, on the other hand, I said Hi, I'm Jim
Cathcart. I'm a professional motivational speaker motivation is a
very valuable thing in our society. Wouldn't you agree? How do you
motivate the people in your organization? I mean, just that, right?
Instead, I'm just talking with a guy and looking for something to
admire and compliment. And as I heard it, I thought about it, and I
thought deeper what's the first principle? And then I commented on
that, and it blew his mind. And he offered me his card. I never
didn't even have it in mind to ask for it.
James Taylor
That reminds me if I think Stephen Covey, I think he was a CPA as
well as people of faith
Jim Cathcart
No, but he was definitely a major influence in my field. I knew him
he hired me a couple times to present on programs appeals, and I
shared the platform with him. amazing guy,
James Taylor
so he had that phrase, seek first to understand then be
understood.
Jim Cathcart
Right goes that,
James Taylor
you know, rather than the, the selling as well and actually say
something I'm thinking about something like Stephen Covey, and I'm
thinking about some of those other names that We'd mentioned
earlier. And I think some of those names that we did you know, the
ones that you just said right towards the end like the Samuel
smiles, for example. Yeah. And I'm guessing and I haven't seen it,
but I don't know if Samuel smiles has a book, you know, what,
whether there is or does
Jim Cathcart
not. In fact, I think the title of it was access. Okay, so it was a
long time ago before anyone knew what that word meant.
James Taylor
So that leads me to my next thing, which is about what is the role
of creating a body of work, and something that is going to go live
live beyond you? that people can look back and actually, you know,
100 years 200 years time, there's some universal principles,
evergreen principles that you can say, right? Wow, that feels like
that was written yesterday, just like today, you know, I that's so
interesting. You you've written 20 books. And I think, I often
think our speaking is an amazing thing, but it's quite an effect.
All, like going to live concerts like you experience this thing and
it's fantastic. And then there's a way for them. Yeah. But then his
music is gone is gone. And we think about all those great music
artists over the years who we were taught with fantastic life, but
we have nothing to remember them by or to think. So. Where do you
see where you are in your career just now and looking at looking
back and thinking, what advice you can give to other generations?
The role of work in today where maybe the person is the book?
Jim Cathcart
Yeah, you know, the famous, the secret the movie that came out.
Rhonda Byrne did that a few years ago and, and it was focused on a
principle from a book in 1910 called the science of getting rich by
a man with the unfortunate name of Wallace wattles. It's like, you
know, john Thompson or something more Mainstream Wallace wattles
but Wallace wattles had a very profound impact on on people's
thinking. His book, The Science of Getting Rich talked about the
law of attraction, and how in in science or whatever in philosophy
as well, that when a desire or a focused idea is is created, the
energy from that draws to it other things. It's like when you get a
new car, and let's say you get a blue Toyota, well, the minute you
go on the road with your blue Toyota, you will start noticing blue
Toyotas everywhere. Now, they were there already, but you never
noticed them before. But now your attention is different. And so
you're seeing those opportunities where you never saw them before.
Same things true in business when you focus on a goal. When you say
I will become a professional speaker, full time professional
Speaker and earn my living by sharing truths and motivating
audiences. Well, that's a big goal. But once you actually commit to
doing that, you'll start seeing opportunities to do it. So how do
you write a best selling book, you say I'm going to become a best
selling author? Well, there's a difference between writing a best
selling book and becoming a best selling author.
Let me explain that difference that I have many friends who are
best selling authors, and many of them have best selling books. But
some of them don't. Here's the difference, a best selling book, if
you put it in a bookstore or online at Amazon or Barnes and Noble
or whatever, it'll sell. Because it's a best seller. It's got a
popular title. People love it, and they're interested in it and
they do. internet searches to find it. Okay, it's a best selling
book. a best selling author is let's say it's you and so you decide
to Write a series of books you write your first one. And it pretty
much captures your your life philosophy and your business strategy
and your main story. And you go out and tell people about this book
and you do the practices that would lead to selling many, many
books. Well, it may never hit a bestseller list, but you'll be
ordering thousands of them to deliver to your audiences and to
fulfill through your website and to sell in your own ways. It's
kind of like being a best selling act, you know, perform musical
act. You can sell out houses and sell tons and tons and tons of
merchandise from your concert, but never hit the main charts. And
you can think back over the years there have been really noteworthy
musical performers that have been that type. They never really were
a chart topping performers But they made a fortune.
James Taylor
Yeah, that's that's interesting distinction I think about a good
friend of mine who is not he's not. He's not known as a as a best
selling author. Yet his last book sold 250,000 copies
Jim Cathcart
or beyond best selling. Yes,
James Taylor
it's and because he was looking for a different thing he was
looking for impact rather than maybe some of the bells and bells
and whistles or making a New York Times bestseller. And because
that book has been so it's it's a worldwide book. It's not focused
on just a particular one particular market. I think he said the
other day he said one in 10 people in Iceland have got a copy of
his book, which
Jim Cathcart
you've got that my friend Alan peace out of Australia is like that.
Yeah, he's got a book called why men don't listen and women can't
read maps.
James Taylor
Yeah. I've ever seen him. I think it was hit with a him and his
wife. We used to go out
Jim Cathcart
together. They still do. And I just got an email from him this
morning. And his book is the number one bestseller in France right
now. And he didn't even know that it was selling in France,
James Taylor
is that difference between writing a best selling book and being a
best selling author? Interesting. That's an interesting kind of
distinction there as well.
Jim Cathcart
Because if you're a best selling author, then you're cultivating in
you the qualities, the skills, the strategies, the business
practices that will constantly sell whatever it is you're selling.
If you're selling coffee mugs, it'll still sell well, because
you're the kind of person that knows how to do that, and has the
work ethic and all the things that are needed to do it. So you'll
be a best seller. But your book won't necessarily make you famous.
Like mine. I've sold hundreds of thousands of books and recordings.
Over the years, I've delivered all those thousands of speeches and
received all these big awards. But if you were to ask a person on
the street, in a business community or just in the social community
Who's Jim Cathcart? They would say, No clue. Because I'm not famous
in a public sense. You know, I don't appear in newspapers and
magazines and television shows on mainstream media like, like, some
people do like a Tony Robbins, for example. But I got a hell of a
life going, you know, this has been great. And my colleagues admire
and respect me and I love them and and respect them. And, you know,
this just ain't a bad deal. Oh, and I did a TED talk. I was asked
to do a short TED talk and I did an eight and a half minute TED
talk in Delray Beach, Florida TEDx, the independently organized TED
event, and it went viral. It I've had 1,700,000 views of my little
eight minute TED Talk which netted me zero dollars, much
credibility and so many Any referrals that have made, you know, 10s
of thousands off of it. And it's just a little eight and a half
minute thing called How to believe in yourself,
James Taylor
you can finally say you become an overnight success now, Jim,
definitely 42 years. So let's get some final questions, some quick
fire questions. I'd love to know. I want you to imagine you're on a
long haul flight, maybe go in nature next flight to China and you
can choose on that you're seeing a business class or first class
flight and you sit next, any speaker living or dead, you could be
sitting next to them for the duration of that flight and they could
be sharing with you you could be having a conversation. Who would
that speaker be?
Jim Cathcart
Wow. Ah, another way I've done that with many of my heroes, you
know, had long flights sitting seated next to them and just
capturing the pearls of wisdom. I would think it has to be Zig
Ziglar because he's so much fun. You know, if I wanted to be
inspired, I would go with Dr. Kenneth McFarland wonders most people
today have never heard up, because he's just so profound and he's
so absolutely meticulously skilled at delivering a idea or a
message. I knew not to Dr. Norman Vincent Peale and had a chance to
work with him a little bit, and he would certainly touch your heart
and inspire your mind. augmon Dino was a man. So easy to love and
admire. But I think Zig would be the most fun so the flight would
go fast. We would have a great time. He would appreciate my stories
from the southern United States and I would certainly appreciate
his because we both grew up in neighboring states, Arkansas and
Mississippi. He was from Mississippi.
James Taylor
So I want you to tell us what's in that in your speaker bag. What's
in that bag that you carry with you to all of your various speaking
engagements. You're You're never leave home without
Jim Cathcart
actually Well, I never leave home without Is my notes to myself, I
have a lot of thinking time, you know, I always have I, that's how
I started my career. Earl Nightingale said spend one hour extra
every day studying your chosen path. Five years from now you'll be
a leading authority in that path. And sure enough, that worked for
me. And I continue to do that to this day. And so I'll take a blank
sheet of paper. And I'll just start thinking of all the projects
and all the activities and all the goals and all the primary
relationships in my life. And I'll just list them all like crazy.
And get them on there, maybe two or three pages worth. And then
I'll go back and look over that. And I'll circle the ones that are
truly like a killer app in a computer, you know, the ones that or
that one drives so many of these others that I really have to
achieve that one or nurture that one around. Whatever. And then
I'll look at the connections between all of them and do sort of
like a big bizarre Mind Map, drawing lines and connectors. And then
I'll just keep that paper, I always date every every note page, so
that I know when it took place, and I go back many times, 20 3040
times over a few years, and look at that same page and make other
notes, and then create a new page that's simpler and more
organized, so that I can focus on that things on that new page. And
that's just been a great, great practice for me over the years. And
I consume magazines, I don't read them. When when I get it, I get
several magazines monthly. And when I get the magazines, I
immediately meaning that day, sit down with the magazine and start
scanning it to see what's of interest to me. And I try to read some
of the things that aren't of interest to me just to keep my mind
better exposed to new ideas. And then, as soon as I'm done with
that magazine, you know, I may tear out one article that I haven't
gotten to yet, but I toss the magazine and go on. So my wife has a
whole bunch of women's magazines that she'll keep them to go back
to the articles and so she's got a stack this tall of her
collection. I have a stack this tall of mine. And I get more
information than she does. It was about and then talking about
reading material. If you were to recommend one book, and one of
your own books or a book to our audience, it could be a book on
speaking or book on mindset or topics that you speak on. What would
that one book be? You mentioned Stephen Covey. You know, his book
that he's best known for is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective
People. And that's an exceptionally good book. We talked about
augmon Dino, the greatest salesman in the world or any of his
subsequent books, but I would start with the greatest salesman he I
asked him one time what's your favorite of all your books? Which
one had the biggest impact on your career? He said, Well, you've
read all my books. Jim, what would you say? I said, Well, my
favorite of all your books is the choice. And no, no, excuse me, my
favorite of all your books is the Christ commission, which is a
story about a guy that didn't believe what the Bible was saying.
And and then he had an experience it was yanked back in time to
Biblical days. And he went around and interviewed all the people
that knew Jesus. What an amazing concept. Right? So this guy was an
investigative reporter, and a non believer and somebody in in you
know, the ethers grabbed him and took him back in time and said,
Okay, here, talk to Paul talk to Mary Magdalene and talk to this
guy. He was at the when the stone was rolled away, you know, talk
to this guy, he was healed by him. So I said that was my favorite
book, but the one that had the biggest impact on me was your first
book, greatest salesman in the world. I said, Sony Now what what's
your answer? He said same as yours. He said the one I enjoyed the
most was the Christ commission the one I that had the biggest
impact on my life was the greatest salesman in the world.
James Taylor
different books different books and as
Jim Cathcart
you mentioned having neither one of them requires that you be
Christian. Yeah, yeah. But first principle
James Taylor
was open the road the the was the book about Babylon that the no
that was
Jim Cathcart
a place in George claisen who co wrote a book called The Richest
Man in Babylon which was a similar parable to the greatest salesman
in the world in that it was set back in biblical times with you
know, a guy following the the camels on a merchant train that kind
of stuff. Yeah, I'm
James Taylor
gonna I'm gonna have to go and download the Oakland Deena book now
as well just to trap myself. So you talk about Siri earlier. What
is is there isn't a particular app or tool or A mobile tool, an app
that you find particularly useful for doing the work that you
do.
Jim Cathcart
It comes and goes, You know, I look at the apps that I use from
year to year. And it it it's not the same each year. So I don't
know, I just rely on the fundamentals, you know, just email and
photos and, and Facebook and LinkedIn and things like that, that
that's pretty much me. You know, of course, I've got lots of videos
on YouTube and, and that sort of thing, but I try not to get lured
into becoming an Instagram Rockstar, or making Twitter which you
have to feed all the time like a hungry little animal. You know,
making that my main. No,
James Taylor
that is a big difference, obviously, from going back times. The old
man, dinos and Zig Ziglar says, Wait, they would be thinking about
these ideas all the time, they'd be speaking but then they're
there. Waiting output it was either in the form of a speech or
maybe a radio series or maybe a book that was there that was there
was
Jim Cathcart
an article or a newspaper article magazine article, that sort of
thing. So and there were there were films, but there were actual
films, you know, reel to reel movies, and they would film a speech
or whatever, and then they would rent it to companies to go and
show at their company meetings.
James Taylor
Okay, okay. So I guess big difference now because I can also see
what a lot of speakers it whether it's an a Twitter or Instagram, I
can almost see them working on their ideas, as they're doing them
and especially on Twitter and slow form, I can see all that that's
things linking to that. And then, you know, a few months later, you
see them speak up, okay. It makes sense now, because but they're
actually they're kind of rehearsing in public or public.
Jim Cathcart
That That reminds me without Vimeo, And YouTube, I would feel
severely handicapped. Because I have so many videos that I've
either created or that have been done of something live that I was
doing. They are a vital part of what I do now. You know, I've
created online courses and video training and such. There's a
publisher mentor.com mentor ed.com that publishes one of my series
here in the US. And those are just super important podcasts and,
and online shows like this. That's that's the cassettes today, you
know, those are the records those are the, those are the pamphlets
or the books or the magazines of today. And and so you just hop on
the train, or plane, you know, and you've got this little guy when
I say train, I'm thinking of the bullet trains in China, as opposed
to Amtrak going across America cuz people don't do it as much here.
But that's that's your whole suite of services right there.
James Taylor
Love that. Basically I think I think all these tools that we now
have at our fingertips new online courses, including memberships
and podcasts and video series and an online summit, like like this,
this one, for example. And it wouldn't have been possible, unless
people yourself and the zig ziglar is an earl Nightingale's had to
first push that through. So people today know that they have a
problem know that there's something to be worked on where
previously the university didn't even know that they had a problem.
And yeah, that was the first step is going to say Actually,
Jim Cathcart
that's the thing today, the big decision is not whether we should
train our people. It's which training should we do next? And who
should we go to?
Jim Cathcart
Yeah, is it there is a different level of fees, just just make
yourself the best choice and then they'll say Well, yeah, now of
course we need it. So let's go with you. So a final quick,
James Taylor
final question for you, Jim, I want you to imagine that you woke up
tomorrow morning. And you have to start from scratch. So no one
knows who you are. But you've got all the skills you've acquired
over the years, but no one knows who you are, you know, no one you
have to completely restart. Perfect. Would you do? How would you
restart things? Well, first off, I'd be excited, not depressed.
Jim Cathcart
I would when we moved from La Jolla, San Diego to Thousand Oaks
back in 2001. We didn't know anybody but we moved here so that we
wouldn't have Los Angeles between us and our grandkids. And we
wanted to be able to make that commute more easily. So we moved up
here, and I said to my wife the first day I said, you know what I
like about this. The uncertainty. I don't know anybody yet. Yet
being the operative word, right. And now I know people all over the
community and they know me back. What I would do if I started
praying Tomorrow with my skill set, and nobody knew me, and I had
no business assets other than what's in my mind and heart is I
would immediately start going out and interviewing people about
their problems, their challenges their issues. Because I know I
would uncover some of those that I could I had a solution for. And
then I wouldn't try to sell something, I would look for a way to
become their solution and get compensated for it. So that's the
thing if you're a problem solver, you'll never be out of work ever.
I gave my my grandson who's now 18 business cards when he was 10
years old. And I gave him a box full of business cards. That said,
Jason Cathcart problem solver. I'm looking for one right now. I
know I've got one here, nearby. Now I haven't found it and I'm not
going to do Take up your time with that. But anyway, I gave him a
box of business cards. And he said, what's, what are these? That's
their business cards. He said, What's a business card? And I
explained it. And he said, Well, what's Cathcart Institute? I said,
That's grandpa's company. What's a company? And I explained it, and
what's jason@cathcart.com? So that's your email address for real.
He said, I've got an email address. I said, Yeah. And he said,
Well, it says, problem solver. What does that mean? I said, Jason,
you're a thoughtful guy. When you look at something, you don't just
dive into it and start doing things with it. You kind of observe it
and study it. And then you get involved and you seem to be a
natural problem solver, and said, The world needs those. And that's
how people get paid. If you're a problem solver, you'll always be
able to find work. He's super cool. And I said we'll have a nice
birthday and then I went on my way this was at his screen. In the
morning on his 10th birthday, and his mother's a teacher at that
school. And so I called later that night and I said, Sonia, what
happened after I left? She said, Oh my gosh, every kid in the
schools got one of Jason's business cards. What do you think
Whitney James think about this 10 year old kid gets a box of
business cards for his birthday has no clue what that is. But it's
a novelty and it's got his name on it. So he starts showing it to
the other kids. every other kid says, What's a business card? He
explains it. What's Cathcart Institute? He explains it. What's
Jason at Cafe? He explains it. What's problem solver? He must have
explained that 30 or 40 times that day. Now, how deep is that
impression in his mind? At age 10, which happens to be one of the
strongest imprint periods of your entire life. Yeah. Yeah,
James Taylor
that's it as an amazing, amazing story. Well, Jim, thank you so
much for coming on today. If people want to learn more about you
learn more about Cathcart, cute and all the other things you've got
going on just now where's the best place to go and do that?
Jim Cathcart
I would say, Cathcart comm is the easiest start because it's just
my name. And if you type in Jim Cathcart comm, it'll get you there
too. But I own the domain for family name. And LinkedIn is another
good one. Because on LinkedIn, I have a very robust profile. And it
has videos that they can watch for free, and all kinds of other
items in it like that. And I'd love to be helpful also that, you
know, I'm so omnipresent on the web. You know, you can find me on
YouTube, Vimeo, wherever, and watch videos and you hear me playing
guitar and singing and all kinds of other things
James Taylor
they have. That conversation is just anyone watching this and
listening to this just now especially if you're just getting into
the world of speaking You are part of a lineage a part of a
heritage the good way is right. or other speakers who, just like
us, we've used our, our voices, our bodies, our ideas on stage to
be able to transform audiences. So you are not alone. You're part
of a great lineage. And so Jim, thank you for being part of that.
That story and sharing that with everyone and I really look forward
to us sharing a stage together in the future.
Jim Cathcart
Me too. Thank you so much. It's been an honor.
James Taylor
Today's episode was sponsored by speakers you the online community
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