Mar 12, 2020
Maximizing Speaker Fee
How To 10X Your Speaker Fee In 12 Months – with Sally Hogshead
Want to know how to 10X your speaker fee in 12 months or less? In today’s interview James Taylor talks with keynote speaker Sally Hogshead about
The four types of speakers that get booked
How to 10x your speaker fee in 12 months
Ways to insanely overdeliver
Resources:
Sally’s website: Sally
Hogshead
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hogshead
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Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/sl053-how-to-10x…h-sally-hogshead/
James Taylor
Hi, it's James Taylor, founder of SpeakersU. Today's episode was
first aired as part of International Speakers Summit the world's
largest online event for professional speakers. And if you'd like
to access the full video version, as well as in depth sessions with
over 150 top speakers, then I've got a very special offer for you.
Just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com, where you'll be able to
register for a free pass for the summit. Yep, that's right 150 of
the world's top speakers sharing their insights, strategies and
tactics on how to launch grow and build a successful speaking
business. So just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com but not
before you listen to today's episode.
Hey, there is James Taylor here business creativity keynote speaker and founder of international speakers summit. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Sally hogshead. And she's talking to me about how to fascinate, persuade, and captivate. Enjoy the session.
Hey there, it's James Taylor, and I'm delighted today to be joined by Sally Hogshead. Sally Hogshead is an internet keynote speaker two times New York Times bestselling author and member of the CPA speaker Hall of Fame, the speaking industry's highest award for professional excellence. She's the creator of the fascination advantage assessment the first communication assessment that measures your personal brand. Sally began her branding careers one of advertisings most highly awarded copywriters, and after researching 1 million participants, our algorithm can pinpoint your most valuable differentiating traits. Using his science based fascinated system, she teaches audiences how to instantly persuade and captivate. When you fascinate your listener, they're more likely to remember you respect you, admire you and take action. From the moment she steps on stage. Sally captivates her audience studies and stories outlines startling new perspectives on how our human brain are hardwired to be influenced. She reveals why we buy certain brands but not others. Why we follow specific types of leaders and even why we fall in love with certain people and it's my great pleasure. To welcome Sally today. So welcome, Sally.
Sally Hogshead
Thank you, James. I'm super excited to be able to be here with
you.
James Taylor
And I'm sure of all the guests that we've got. Every time I tell
people about like, I've got this different guests and say, Oh,
you've got Sally. Awesome. I'm so excited. You go, Sally. So, so
first of all, thanks so much for coming on.
Sally Hogshead
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm super psyched
because I love speaking so much, but I don't get to speak about
speaking. So this is really fun for me.
James Taylor
So share with me, what's your focus just now what projects you
currently focused on?
Sally Hogshead
Well, I measure this measure what makes somebody fascinating and
one of the things I've learned in my research with a million people
is people think they're less fascinating than the average person.
In other words, people aren't confident in their own ability to
fascinate. And I couldn't understand why. And finally, what we
learned from our studies is people aren't confident in their
message. They don't feel like they have something significant to
add to the conversation. And so they imagine if you're a speaker on
stage, If you're asking for people's attention, it's crucial that
not only do you have a message, but that you're responsible for
making sure that message is heard, remembered that it makes a
difference that people aren't just inspired. But that people know
how to take action differently that they can connect differently.
But if we don't think that we're fascinating, our message will
fail. And so right now I'm working on a new book named you are
fascinating. And it is about being able to identify your most
fascinating traits so that you can build your message around that
and make a bigger difference.
James Taylor
I'm a huge fan of I got this one early on, well, before we ever
met, how the world sees you, and I think this is like required
reading of speakers. Because it feels like in a world where there's
so many, so many speakers out there that event planners and
organizers can choose from, is that differentiation piece, that's
really really, what a lot of speakers struggle with your show.
Sally Hogshead
Yes, yeah, we can get into that today. I mean, that was a that was
a big part of what I studied that I had to, I had to not just do it
for my clients in the past when I worked in advertising. But then
the sudden realization, oh, I need to contain myself.
James Taylor
I mentioned earlier you You came from the world of copywriting from
advertising. And then you obviously move into speaking you're one
of the most successful speakers I'm going to speak a Hall of Fame.
But in those early years of you kind of moving into being a
professional speaking and speaking, is your main thing. Who those
early mentors and people that can have inspired you.
Sally Hogshead
There are a lot of people within NSA that that they didn't just
inspire me, but I found that I it by watching them, I could see
what a true professional speaker does. A lot of times people think
if you know how to write in other words, if you know the language
that you can then become an author. They also think if you know how
to speak and you can command a crowd that you can then be a
speaker, but being a speaker, and mastering the speaking business,
the business end of it are completely different. And so I started
by looking at great speakers like Michael Port Rene Brown, You
know, a lot of the people that are actually going to be part of our
summit. But then I took a step back and I started looking at
business models to understand people behind the scenes, like people
like Michael Hyatt, Marie Forleo. How do they build a tribe because
being able to surround yourself with people who are passionately
devoted to your message is a key part of being a speaker, because
the message is more important than the delivery.
James Taylor
And with you so you can start you can start getting out in the road
going speaking, but I don't know Well, no, well, but like all of
us, we all start somewhere in those in those early days, you know,
you were up quickly though, you started to kind of build over
speaking but they got a point where you hit a little bit of a
plateau. On the on the on the fee side, you were kind of getting
near you out. You were getting the calls and everything but it was
like weird, and now you're in the stratosphere as a speaker. So
what happened around that time?
Sally Hogshead
It was it was actually a really difficult A difficult transition
for me because I had come from advertising where I felt complete
confidence. And I felt like it was I was very much in the flow of
that side of my career. And when I wanted to transition into
becoming a speaker, it was very easy to get from, from zero to
thousands really easy, from 1000 to two or 3000 is pretty easy. But
then all of a sudden, my speaking fee plateaued at around 4000,
which is not nothing. But the problem is, if I'm going to be
traveling and leaving town, I need to be able to make it worthwhile
so that when I'm away from my kids, that I can still have a
growing, thriving business. And so I took a step back and I started
looking at the speaking industry about what drives the engine of
how is one speakers decided over another. And I started looking at
this as though I was looking through the lens of branding. And what
I saw was the traditional criteria to have a speaker succeed. It
goes through a laborious process that takes decades. For example,
it's you, you master your speaking skill, the actual delivery of
the speaking skill, and then you you contact with a beer. Rose, and
then you write a book and you write another book and you read
another book, and then you schmooze clients and you build your
social media following and it's like, God, it was like that, you
know that they're just there's got to be a better way. There's got
to be a shortcut. And so I started looking, analyzing it. The the
research behind why one speaker is chosen, and another one isn't
one speaker can raise their feet and another one can't. And I found
that every time you are being considered for a speech, you're
essentially being considered with four other types of speakers. The
first type of speaker is one who's a the Absolute Owner of a
certain specialized niche of information like, you know, the the
health care providers Association spokesperson. The second type is
one who's just flat out more famous than you, the Malcom Gladwell
or Seth Godin. The third type is cheaper than you so they're just
gonna undercut you on price. And the fourth one is what I call the
pet. The pet is the one that's like, oh, everybody loves Bob. We've
had him every year for 10 years or my brother in law's getting into
speaking Why don't we hire him? So I began to take a step back and
say, Well, what do I have? That's, that's different than those and
I realized there's a moment when somebody who's considering you for
a speech very first sees your materials. If they've never heard of
you, something's going to happen in their brain they're either
going to say no or maybe no or maybe and I realized that all I had
to do was stay in the maybe pile and not get thrown into the no
pile. And so the first few moments that people look at this is so
important that the police cars or
James Taylor
what's happening here is the the speaker police are coming to get
you But yeah, you're telling me the secrets you sharing the secrets
you that's why they come to get you.
Sally Hogshead
So I said to myself, what I'm going to do is make I'm going to
present myself introduce myself to these these bureaus, these
meeting planners, event planners, clients, in a way that they may
not like my speech, they may not like my style, but they will not
forget me. And so I put together a package in which I reached out
to the hundred clients that I most wanted to work with. And I wrote
I wrote them a letter They didn't talk about me at all. It said,
Here's why I think you're fascinating. And for each one of those
hundred clients, I went on look at their social media profile, look
at their Facebook page, I researched them, I looked at articles
they've written or been featured in. And I put together what my
perception was of their personal brand. And then at the bottom, I
simply said, if you'd like to talk more about your brand, and how
it might be able to support you, in your work, give me a call.
Well, long story short, within, within just a couple of weeks, I
had basically filled up the next six months of my speaking and it
was it was a huge transformational leap. It showed me, you don't
need to just fascinate the decision maker. You need to understand
how the decision making process goes through the system. And one
thing I learned was the person who's going to be making the final
approval, which speaker they use there but it's totally on the
line. So they have to have something that allows them to validate
their decision, especially if you're new or you're very expensive
that they need to be To go to their board of directors or to their
the meeting planner need to be able to go to their client, or the
speaking agent needs to be able to go to the meeting planner and
explain exactly why they chose you instead of somebody else. And so
it's your job as a speaker, to give them everything they need to
arm them with all the tools so they can do in advertising what's
called selling up. Promise too often, we simply talk about
ourselves and we don't necessarily arm the person with, with
understanding the tangible, lasting benefits. A good keynote
speaker can hold an audience's attention. A great keynote speaker
can inspire and motivate them, maybe give them a few actionable
takeaways. But it's really extraordinary keynote speaker can build
a relationship not just between themselves and the audience, but
between the audience members and the person who's paying for the
speech. So if people are still talking about your keynote years
later, and they use it, almost like as a, that that lightning bolt
moment, when they like, Hey, remember when so taught us such and
such. That's when you've really done your job because you've
embedded yourself into the way that Think
James Taylor
a little bit. I mean, you're because you come from that, obviously
understanding branding at a deep level. So I think I think about
the great brands I think about, you know, the Volvo, for example
owns the owner word they own involves because they
Sally Hogshead
say that let's say the word on the kind of three because I bet we
both know what it is. Okay.
James Taylor & Sally Hogshead
123
James Taylor & Sally Hogshead
safety. Yes.
James Taylor
Safety. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, you know, we think about
something like BMW, and they own that kind of engineering and
almost own, you know, their own feelings almost. You own fascinate
that word. I'm sure that when people leave that conference hall,
when they're having those discussions in the offices around you,
you own that. So was that a very conscious decision? An early stage
was to go find that that word that you wanted to own you wanted to
put your stake in the ground said, This is me the only remember one
other thing they know. That's the fascinating person.
Sally Hogshead
Yeah, yes, of course. I love that question. Originally, I had been
studying branding and then I was studying Why we pay attention to
certain people and not others? And then finally I saw in a medical
journal I saw a passage that said the one of the oldest words in
written language in ancient Latin is the word fastener a fastener a
means to be which or hold captive. So your listener is powerless to
resist. I thought man that that is cool to be which are held
captive so your listeners powerless to resist and the more I began
looking at it, I saw there was this open space, this this unclaimed
territory conceptually not just as a word, but as a rich history in
a science and a context that I could that I could dig very, very
deeply into. And I think that's one of the things that's so
important is a speaker, you have to be able to have a topic not not
just like a word, but you have to be able to speak about something
that if you took your name off the speaking description, that
nobody else could put their name in there because if you're talking
about say, time management or customer experience, you've got to be
able to deliver something else. Otherwise, you're just a commodity.
Otherwise, you'll never be able to become truly perceived as the
expert, because somebody else can come in and just deliver your
content and do it. To speak more specifically about that, I want to
make sure that I cover one of the things that we're talking about
which is having a word. BMW is one of the first clients I ever had,
in advertising the ultimate driving machine. Later, I worked on the
United States launch of Mini Cooper mini Coopers owned by BMW but
it's not at all about ultimate driving machine. It's about
participation and, and the experience in the same way as BMW Mini
Cooper differentiated that's part of what my research showed me is
how do you identify exactly how somebody differentiates themselves
and that's where I created the fascination advantage, the that
assessment that we were talking about, that measures how other
people see you, and so that I can give you those words the words
that define how you can Make sure that you're not a commodity you
can rise above the competition. And we'll be talking about that
later, right?
James Taylor
Absolutely, I'm going to be we have a very cool thing for everyone
here as well, we're going to tell them about, I heard an interview
with you recently, and so much of what you do and you talk about on
stage, it looks extremely effortless, and you're kind of shine
you're fascinating, you're staging here, but there's, there's a,
there's a science as a background, this there's things going on
there. And the and I remember hearing you talk about, you looked
into you read very deep into the science of, you know, neuroscience
and all kinds of different different areas of science. And one of
the things you talked about was us as humans, I think we like only
one 1% difference in terms of our DNA from from chimpanzees, and
you know, other things. So it's like so when I come to think about
differentiation, I've got like a 1% differentiator, and then we
think about us as human beings and what attracts me to my wife, for
example, she has a differentiation in that that that one person You
know, can go and going down as well pray. So when you kind of did
that, with Where did that kind of lead you in terms of the way that
you can study that in the science. And then where did that take you
in terms of the kind of information you can share with your
audiences. Now,
Sally Hogshead
it's crucial for you, especially if you are an aspiring speaker, or
a less established speaker, it's really important for you to be
able to say something that nobody has ever said before, in a way in
which nobody has ever said it. Every time you communicate, you're
doing one of two things, you're either adding value, or you're
taking up space. The problem is too often speakers speak to speak,
all they're trying to do is book an engagement, they, they don't
actually have a transformation they're trying to create for the
audience. As a result, it's very hard for many speakers to raise
their feet. And that's the problem that I was having. I was saying
in 2010 when I could, I couldn't even I couldn't seem to break
through that barrier. And I had that plateau and I was so
frustrated and I was traveling all the time trying to make ends
meet and support my family. What I saw was, I was trying to mimic
other speakers. I was trying to outdo other speakers at what other
speakers were doing. And I was trying to be like, you know, the the
most authoritative or the most polished? Well, you know what,
that's not me. I can't out Michael Port Michael Port. Right. And,
and so I took a step back and I began to see that if I can identify
in what way is not just me, but the experience that I'm delivering
completely different. Not only does it make it more fun and
energizing and confident creating to be on stage, but it helps with
bookings tremendously, because remember, if you think about it,
giving a speech is easy compared to getting the speech. If you have
a message that matters, though, it's not just about speaking for
the sake of speaking, if you if you can't get in front of the
audiences, if you can't get in front of audiences that can take
action and spread your message and become evangelists for what you
have to say, then you've done a disservice If you have a message
that matters, you almost have a duty to make sure that people are
fascinated by that. And it's not just audience members, it's the
decision maker before the process even begins. And so so that's why
I spent so much time looking into this How is that decision made?
One of the things that I saw, I couldn't even believe this. I
looked at on speaking websites on bureau websites, you know, how do
they have that drop down menu, you know, what I'm talking about
where you pick the category leadership, entrepreneurial ism
psychology, etc. And I started comparing those topics to the fee
that the speaker charge and I I started looking at what is the
relationship why it how much more can a social media person charge
than a marketing person? I found with creativity and innovation,
innovation speakers, on average charge $5,000 more than creativity
speakers. And the reason is because innovation has a perceived
outcome. Innovation is seen as a bet as an ROI person who's writing
the check. Whereas we all know it creativity, innovation, they're
like, you know, siblings. But creativity seems like a process
that's an end in itself. So that's why it's so crucial for you to
understand what does your end decision maker need? That's going to
be the change. And that's why every time I do a free speech
briefing call, first question I always ask is, what is the biggest
problem that's going on in your company right now? In other words,
what is stressing out your employees or what's causing conflict on
the team? And the answers will be something along the lines of
people are totally overwhelmed, or our prices are falling, or our
competitor has come out with technology that's better than ours. Or
we were not getting enough new leaves with the transition to
millennials, etc. And once I have that piece of information, I can
plug my topic into solving the need. So if the need is
commoditization, well, then the solution is you have to be
fascinating and differentiated. If the problem is that there's bad
community Then I can structure my entire piece of content is just
slightly shifting my topic to say, in order to have better
communication, you have to understand the hidden patterns within
the person sitting across the table so that you can create
resonance. And that's that, it's things like that, that helps
speakers get booked more quickly. So by the time the, my goal is
that by the time they finished the briefing call that I have just
delivered, I have just delivered the experience of what it's like
for me to be on stage. In other words, what the experience that an
audience has, when I'm on stage for a huge keynote. I want my
client to have just had that on the call that aha epiphany. And one
of the reasons that is so great having you on this summit,
especially at the start of the summit, something I was very
conscious I was doing all these interviews, speak with these great
speakers is I was quite conscious that if you just kind of came
into you know, just
James Taylor
not having a sense of who you are and knowing know, knowing
thyself, right, it'd be really easy to get confused. Because, you
know, Michael Port will give you an example of that. This is what I
suggest here, someone else might give another to someone else might
give another suggestion. And one of the great things about you and
we have with a fascination advantage, and we'd like to kind of just
talk about that. And how that works just now is it kind of goes
back to that sense of like, what are your strengths? What is that
thing that fascinates you? Yeah. And I think once people want
speakers know, that piece is actually so much easier, then to the
side, it's like knowing your customer avatar, once you know your
customer avatar who your ideal customer, a lot of the noise just
goes away, you could just focus well, would sue read that would
know would Bob read that? If not, it's not looking to focus on
Right, right. And to the fascination advantage, and we're gonna
we're going to talk again, we'll have some links. We're gonna
discuss that in a second as well. And how does how does it work?
What's it all was all about? We talked about, you know, we're the
precursor to coming to it, but But what is the fascination
advantage?
Sally Hogshead
fascination is an intense focus. So remember a moment ago, we
learned that the It's one of the most ancient words and written
language from the last infest era to be which are hold captive. So
your listener is powerless to resist. When you're speaking to an
audience, when that audience is fascinated, their brain is just
focused on you. They're not thinking about their iPhone and
thinking about their next meeting. Sometimes, from a body language
perspective, their job becomes slack. And they put their hands they
unfold their hands and put them on the armrests because they're,
they're completely in the zone with you. And it's during these
times when your audience is fascinated. They're more likely to
listen to you and remember you. But more importantly, you become
embedded in their conversation the way that they think. So when you
fascinate somebody, what our studies show is that you can charge
far more for your prices, you can, they're more likely to refer you
to respect you. Let me give you a quick example. I did a study in
which I gave women two pairs of sunglasses that were exactly the
same. On one pair, I put a Chanel logo and I said to people How
much would you be willing to pay for these two pairs of sunglasses?
They were willing to pay 400% more for the pair with the Chanel
logo, even though they were exactly the same glasses exactly the
same. So I thought to myself, well, what they're saying they're
buying is a pair of sunglasses, but what they're really paying for
it is the logo, the difference but the the value of branding is
that if here's a commodity, but people are willing to pay this
much, this right here is the value of that brand. And the same is
true for speakers. There are two he could have two speakers who
have the same quality network, the same type of content or the same
level of experience or credentials. But if one speaker can brand
themselves as being very clearly associated with it with certain
certain traits, certain ways that they add value, and most
importantly, certain ways that they differentiate themselves from
the pack. Those speakers can rise far more quickly within within
the world and the key here is not just being able to charge more
money. mean, you know, that's nice, but that's not really the
point. The key is that you can get in front of the audiences that
you most want to speak to, so that your message can resonate. So
there's this ripple effect, so that you speak to the people who are
most likely to become your advocates. And those people will spread
your message further. And if you believe that your message matters,
then, like I said before, it's your responsibility to fascinate the
audience so that you can get the best engagements that you want
with for some for me, I want big, big audiences to thousand or more
high level decision makers who can go back and change their culture
based on what they learned with me. Other people have different
types of audiences they want, but the, the more that you you're
differentiated, you become irreplaceable. And that, imagine it like
this. If, if, if somebody really wants the concept of, of how to be
fascinating how to avoid commoditization, and overcome through
differentiation, there aren't a lot of other speakers that you can
just be plugged in there, whereas, if my topic was basic psychology
or basic branding, well, you know, we've got 10 different speakers
we can look at. And that that, that takes away your power as a
speaker and as a business owner,
James Taylor
and how much you think your your successes because also due to the
fact that you have created intellectual property that is really you
know, it's very powerful that the the assessments very powerful.
There's all the other things around that as well. But this is
something you had to really work and put together that you own
Sally Hogshead
and invest in, invest dramatically, right, even during the period
of time. When I wasn't, I wasn't, it wasn't like I was I it wasn't
like I was being able to command a high fee in speaking. So
therefore I did research it said I did the research first. One of
the things that I learned is especially for women speakers, of the
audience of the pool of authors, only 10% of business authors are
women and Only 10% of those women business authors are speakers. So
that's why it's so easy to see why it's very rare to see a woman
keynote speaker during the opening session or the closing session
and why it's so important for me to empower women speakers, one of
the one of the one of the worst mistakes that women make is they
brand themselves as a woman rather than brand themselves as a as
the content. So what ends up happening is imagine we're looking at
it on the axis. If you have high quality content, low quality
content, highly entertaining, dry, dusty academic, most women,
either they don't have great content, honestly, most speakers most
because either they don't have great content or they don't have
great delivery. But if you can live in the upper quadrant, we have
great content, meaning you have proprietary research you have you
have great concepts that nobody's ever heard before that people can
actively implementing get excited about and you have great
delivery, then it makes it the audiences fall in love. Because
you're irreplaceable and meeting planners seek you out.
James Taylor
And when you mentioned those, those 100 organizers that you
contacted with that, that I have, I love that. Here's why I think
you're fascinating. You can go into them in that way. It's just
like, no, like no one else does that. So I think it's absolutely
amazing that you did.
Sally Hogshead
Can I give you an example? Yeah, I get what I when I get really
excited, I like I love this conversation, because all this is
happening in the back end in my business, but I never actually get
to talk about it. Anybody could do this. If you if, you know, pick
a topic, any topic What if you don't make it about you? What if you
start applying it to the person that you're talking to if somebody
studies finances, if you could say not like, Hey, I study finance,
but instead of it could be hey, here's the three trends that are
going on in your industry right now that you should know about
maybe a handwritten letter and just have your phone number on there
or your website. If you're in real estate, say hey, I sent a
private investigator to stalk you. I'm kidding. If you could say in
I noticed you lived in New York, here's three things that are
happening in real estate right now in New York, that that that
would be helpful for you. Because remember, every time you
communicate, adding value taking up space, if you take up space in
front of a meeting planners mind, they're just gonna ignore you the
next time you try to reach out but if you add value, then they
personally become invested in you being their chosen speaker.
James Taylor
And how did you kind of slice and dice when you when you have those
hundred? And obviously, there's so many conferences, so many events
happening? How did you target in on you mentioned, like the two
those two sides 2000 plus type events, but where did you go for any
particular industry or any particular niche or? Yeah, absolutely.
What How did that work
Sally Hogshead
there? It's very important to think of your content to think who
has the biggest problem you can possibly find for which your
content will solve that problem. For me, people who are sitting in
the audience if they don't think they have a problem with
disruption, if they don't think they have a problem with
competition and distraction and commoditization, I'm really not the
right speaker for them. So there's certain industries like I've
learned, for example, agriculture. When I speak to agriculture
audiences, there isn't a sense, among the ones I've spoken with,
where they have an urgency that, wow, my industry is totally
getting disrupted, and I want change. And I personally have a
vested interest in listening to what Sally saying, because my butt
is on the line. On the other hand, salespeople, creative
professionals, real estate agents that those people understand,
man, the world is changing, and I've got about a year because the
way what has served me up until now is not going to continue to
serve me. So they're really hungry for the message and they value
it and they take it very seriously because they, they want to go
back and apply it immediately. So that's why organizations where I
have the decision maker sitting in the room, they're very creative.
They are they're not change adverse. They're brand safe. They, they
don't just want to be entertained, they don't just want to
inspiration, they actually want to think or do something
differently when they walk out of the room. And then they want to
go share it with their teams. That's my ideal client.
James Taylor
And was interesting as from my perspective, having just having you
on as a guest. And so we're talking about you could go showing the
back office stuff and, you know, opening the kimono and type of
thing and the level of detail both you and your team have put into
this event that we're doing together just now. has been, you know,
it's been exemplary.
Sally Hogshead
Thank you. I try to say my team totally rock. Kate Beth, rich.
Emily, everybody. Great. Can I show you a geek?
James Taylor
Yeah, give me a geek get off. Oh,
Sally Hogshead
when I okay. So I am not a detail oriented person. And so this is
what Beth and Kate put together. For me. This is my AV kit. And
when you open it, here's everything that I need. But the so I have
three clicker. Everything is marked. With my name. And so one thing
is when I show up to do a speech and the AV guys, like, you know,
this is called wireless love, I can I just silently unroll, you
know where it has my mints It has everything that I could possibly
want. It allows me to come in with complete credibility
immediately. And that allows me to be confident. Another thing that
I do, it's like that hyper detail oriented thing that my that we
have learned is really helpful is before the keynote. But before
the keynote, I take a screen grab of my slides, I send that
screengrab to myself. So that before I walk on stage and that like
awkward moment where you're kind of pacing and keeping your energy
contained, I can be looking over my slides visually. I think those
a certain degree of micromanagement really helps be walking on
stage and being completely confident in that moment. And I thank my
team for helping Do that. But
James Taylor
as an event organizer, it just gives you so much confidence that
that that happens
Sally Hogshead
in this Speaker
James Taylor
year a competent speaker employ you for you on the stage. And, and
especially in that last week, before something happens, like the
when everyone's going, Oh, is this gonna is going to work? Are they
gonna turn off? They're gonna catch your flight, you know all these
things. And I know that I'm sure that when you do your live events,
your team, if anything like this event, and this is obviously an
online event, but if it's anything like that, then it's just that
that that attention to detail makes a huge, huge difference.
Sally Hogshead
I haven't my AV writer is a full page long, and it's not like I
want green m&ms. It's just anything that could potentially be a
problem. I'm just letting them know. When example is. When I if
there's iMac, I let them know, say here's my clicker. I like to
have my computer on the stage. And I say to the person who's doing
the iMac, you know whether it's image magnification where it's a
huge billboard size thing either behind you around the room, if I'm
holding the clicker Show the slide, Don't show me show the slide on
the screen. When I put the clicker down, show me. So it'll be like,
I'm going to give you three points. 123 showing them on the slide.
And then I put the clicker down, I say, now I'm going to tell you a
story about those three points. And it's, it's thinking through all
the things that are going to help the audience connect with you and
make the meeting planner feel confident, that make all the
difference in the world.
James Taylor
And for those people that are just coming into the world of of
speaking, and I guess we kind of think about that, that being being
a disadvantage because you have all these great speakers and they
get the stages. But someone like myself has come in relatively
recently in this kind of is of the of the scrappy, like, Okay,
well, that's interesting how the wave has been done, but like, I'd
like to change things a little bit. I like like rock things off and
make some not necessarily go from the typical A to Zed. What tips
would you give for those people that that maybe there's things that
they can do that actually They're an advantage because they are
just getting started.
Sally Hogshead
Yes. Listen, less experienced speakers or speaker speakers who see
isn't as high as it could be. I'm speaking of details, I made a
little made a little list. There's certain things that speakers can
do that I did that, that I really recommend because it comes
straight from the textbook of branding. First one is, find one way
that you can insanely over deliver for the decision maker,
something that you don't have to be great at every aspect of
speaking but you do need to be extraordinary in one area of content
and one area of service. And as an example, we give huge level of
service to the event planner, sometimes we even send if we are if
we are not booked, but the agent has inquired, sometimes we'll send
a thank you gift or a note saying thank you for considering us. So
what happens is we build a relationship. We for clients who booked
me in Orlando in my hometown, we give them a MacBook Air. Because
we want to be booked more in Orlando MacBook Airs are a great
incentive. And, and over deliver in your in terms of your content
find one way that you can just blow the face off every other
speaker for me, that's proprietary research, measuring a million
people and being able to serve that, that content to my clients. So
when I do the speech on, I can show them all the analytics of their
organization in their group. High, highly paid speakers also have
certain disadvantages that are important. As soon as you hit about
10,000. and above. What I noticed is speakers, they're less likely
to experiment because they feel like oh, I've I've got it handled.
And so what they, they, they, they're kind of doing it from
memorization. And the problem with that is then when somebody sees
your keynote, they don't see how they could continue to bring you
back. Because it's like they don't want to hear the same stories
again. They get in, they're less willing to customize, being able
to customize what the client is not reinvention of your material.
But it's it's crucial that the person sitting in the audience feels
as though although you're not an expert at their content, that you
know their language and you're not calling them, like say with
salespeople, they either have customers or clients, it's really
important for you to know, does the audience refer to them as
customers? Or do they refer to them as clients, or maybe even
consumers? Because if you say clients and their customers, then you
lose credibility. One thing that I do is I always go online before
a speech, I look at their mission statement. And I look at the
About Us page and I deconstruct the tonality. Are they using words
like, we create an empowering workplace in which we want our
employees to rise to the highest level? Or is it more like we've
been we've, like, say an at&t or a GE, we figured it out 100
years ago that excellence is the most important thing. Well, that
they're going to interact differently in in the audience in the
keynote situation then the empowered Wellspring on
James Taylor
And so you as you're kind of researching them, I'm guessing because
you you know, so much with it, you know that you've done a million
of these assessments. So that was great data brings great power.
And I am wondering if could that Oh, would you be able to use that
information? If you under if you know, like that event conference
organized, you've done something in the past and that you kind of
have you had the DNA, you have that code of Oh, almost at that
person? would you use that and you definitely have the code for an
organization in terms of Yes, there's more than this type of
archetypal, this type of archetype.
Sally Hogshead
Yes, when when I speak to a specific industry, like let's say it's
multi level marketing or insurance. We compare that group to our
average population of of people that we've measured within that
same industry, so I can I can say to a group, okay, the average
within the insurance industry, according to our research is a pie
chart or a graph that looks like this. You New York life look like
this. And then that's really meaningful data because it's already
telling them how their organization can differentiate themselves.
Doing data like that, though doing, doing some kind of like heavy
number crunching requires an algorithm a team, huge investment. But
he doesn't have to take that it you can also get that information
through briefing calls, online research, interviews, and knowledge.
Not only is knowledge power, but knowledge is the ability to
differentiate yourself by bringing something new to the
conversation. And within the fascination advantage. You have these
49 different archetypes that you taught, you kind of cover
James Taylor
and I'm wondering when you go like, for example, the National
Speakers Association, is there one type of archetype, that
archetype that really dominates overall, but also is One, you're
you're in that elite group of speaker Hall of Fame inductees. And I
don't know how many, you know, Speaker Hall of Fame that still are
just now out speaking by some very small number is to those people
have a different archetype from from the the, the general
generality of National Speakers Association members?
Sally Hogshead
I love that question. And just so people understand what I'm
talking about, here's the book that we just looked at. And then
this is what this is the matrix. So when, when people take the
fascination advantage assessment, we what we're measuring are, what
we're measuring is how other people perceive them. In other words,
if you're a speaker, how does your audience perceive you? It's not
like disc or Myers Briggs or Colby, which is how do you see the
world based on psychology? This is turning it around based on
branding. And when we go in and we measure groups like National
Speakers organization, MCI, even speaking bureaus, what we find is
they tend to score very high On the power advantage, which is about
confidence and focus and goal orientation, they tend to score very
high on prestige, which is excellence and improving results. They
tend to score very low on alert, which is detail orientation, and
they tend to score very low on Mystique. Mystique is standing back
listening, thinking before speaking, asking questions rather than
talking. Now there's nothing wrong with that every industry from
people in technology score 30% higher than the average population
and Mystique, whereas speakers we haven't measured, we haven't
measured the percentages, they score way lower. And so what that
means is, if you when you take the fascination advantage, if you
score the same way, you're going to have to work harder to
differentiate yourself. You don't want to model yourself after top
speakers. You want to be identify how you're most likely to add
value. You don't have to change who you are. You have to become
more of who you are, and then do it on purpose.
James Taylor
But I'm also guessing that in those industries where maybe that's
the power prestige isn't that high you will stand out in terms of
going it let's say if you're targeting an industry that you want to
go and speak out specifically and I'm so I'm trying to think of
what the opposite of this would be detail accountancy conferences,
I'm just bragging right there the thing. So, you would if you can
have your strength that you have them build upon your strength, but
also be understand understanding very well, that the needs the
demands of that audience and what their 2am right problems all,
then you can stand out, maybe more so than other speakers they
might have. Yes,
Sally Hogshead
your goal is not to mirror your audience because first of all,
that's going to be inauthentic. You're not going to feel confident
you're going to be trying to you're not going to be able to come
out and, and and communicate your message in the most authentic
way. But it is so I'll give you an example. I speak to a lot of
Financial Services groups who tend to not be the whoo lose, you
know. And so at first I would, I would kind of dumb myself down,
water myself down, it would be inhibited. And I would try to do it
the right way. And then what I realized was, I'm not having fun,
they're not getting the message. And so I score on the fascination
advantage, I score very high on passion, very high on innovation.
So before I go on stage, I need to say to myself, right now, I may
feel less confident that I'm going to be able to bond with this
audience over the course of the next 60 minutes. But it is my
responsibility to make sure that I do not dumb down my passion and
my innovation. So that means I'm going to come out I'm going to
engage quickly. I have big body language, I love to be able to tell
them stories that make them feel emotionally engaged with the
content so that then when I give them data and research, they feel
like there's an emotional context for it. I'm not just throwing up
slides, and to be able to be creative. You know, I like to push it
a little bit. I love to go into the audience and and talk to people
about their result of the fascination advantage, which is a, that's
a competitive advantage of mine ad libbing is actually easier for
me than going off script. Whereas for a lot of people that's not
the case if there's something that that you as a speaker if there's
some area of speaking that you know that you can excel in that
becomes almost like your secret weapon then by all means, put that
in the speech give yourself license to totally break the mold of
what a speaker traditionally does.
James Taylor
Yeah, my background being originally a jazz musician, the the
improvisation thing is kind of hardwired hardwired in dance, I'm
struggling to do the exactly the same speech every single time. So
let's start to kind of finish up here I want to come because we're
gonna have we're gonna have a link here just under this video where
people can click on that and get good you know, go through that
assessment and find out what their own archetype is before any
other kind of parting words of wisdom for for speakers, anything
they should be thinking of, to really you know, maybe that the
speaking already and you're doing that the one k two k three k in
that level. But they know that there's so much more this possible
for them any advice there,
Sally Hogshead
I'll just give a give a couple of quick things. When when you have
a conference call with a client, find their picture, learn as much
as you can about them so that you immediately come to the call with
a sense of connection. In the same way that it's hard to give a
speech if you can't see the audience's faces. neurologically, when
you look at another human face, you feel more connected to them
that the next thing is make sure that you micromanage every detail
before the speech that is most important to you. So for me, for
example, it's really important that I don't have to make decisions
within 24 hours of giving a major keynote, so my whole team knows
decisions create Stress, Stress creates uncertainty. I don't want
any uncertainty coming anywhere near me when I'm getting ready for
a major presentation. So we just block off time to make all those
decisions in advance. And then finally, you need to find the aspect
of your content that makes You passionately care. The world isn't
changed by people who sort of cares, or speakers who sort of care
or clients who sort of care. So it's your job to make the audience
passionately care no matter what your topic is, even if your your
topic may seem dry and dusty, but not only should your delivery
emphasize how crucial your topic is, but to also make them feel the
urgency of applying it, and the epiphany of what it's like when
they understand it.
James Taylor
I yeah, I mean, we're in that space now, aren't we, where the
medium the middle just doesn't read. It just doesn't resonate. You
have to be
Sally Hogshead
frankly, nothing below the top 5% resonates you know, it's like
it's it becomes spam. And as a speaker, you don't want to be human
spam.
James Taylor
But what I love about what you do is it's not about it's not about
being inauthentic or being something else. It's just like, like
supercharging what you already are, and just you know, getting the
best of what you already own. So
Sally Hogshead
being more of who you are There's something really liberating
about
James Taylor
that. Absolutely, absolutely. So let's, let's finish up here. And
you showed us your lovely speaker bag, which is absolutely is a
work of art. So congratulations. You're
Sally Hogshead
directed to Kate and Beth and Stephanie who puts it together every
time we go out the door, we actually have two of them so that if I
missing something, we just trade out to the other speaker. But
James Taylor
is there anything of a particular note in there that you absolutely
really couldn't do without
Sally Hogshead
I travel with backups for me if I have any increment of stress, and
if there's anything that throws me off kilter, in the moments while
I'm doing the AV check it, it's like it infects my confidence. And
if I don't feel confident, my keynote isn't going to be as good
because I'm going to be mentally trying to think through the
concepts of you know, kind of trying to say the right thing, kind
of like I am right now, instead of it just flowing because I'm in
the zone. So I always travel wearing the exact same type of uniform
so there's no ambiguity I travel with three different outfits. So
that if Whether changes or if the level of, of dressing this
changes, I carry three of everything, VGA, HDMI, Thunderbolt, three
clickers. After the speech, I always talk to the AV guys, I usually
bring the AV guys a gift, like donuts in the morning. And then I
give them a thumb drive. And I say, Can I download my presentation
right now, because it's always really hard to get it afterwards. In
our contract, it says that the client has to send it to us, I think
it's within like 30 days. But it's really hard. You don't want
after the after the event, you don't want to be going back to the
client, like, Hey, remember me? Because then that becomes, you
don't wanna leave that taste in their mouth. You want to keep the
happy bubble. So manage all of those details in advance so that you
can be in their happy bubble and you keep your client happy.
James Taylor
I think at that point, you mentioned the start there, where you're
talking about having reducing decisions to so on that went on game
day. You have that
Sally Hogshead
reduced decision.
James Taylor
Yeah, I met I had a good opportunity. Meet your When the former
President Barack Obama there, I asked him a question about
speaking. And then and then I know that he does exactly the same
thing. He was the same suit. Every board has the same breakfast
every single morning. He said, I've got enough decisions to make in
my day, right? Yeah, I'd most
Sally Hogshead
I don't know if it's an urban myth, but I've heard that athletes
like Tiger Woods will replicate their living room no matter where
they travel. And so I think, you know, obviously, that's, that's a
bit much but stress reduction is as important as confidence
maximization
James Taylor
another any online resources or tools or apps you find particularly
useful for yourself as a speaker.
Sally Hogshead
Well, I'm building a new version of SallyHogshead.com right now and
I love being able to look at websites that are not speaking
websites. I like looking at branding agencies, photographers, even
New York Magazine, things that things that kind of break that mold.
You don't want to look and sound and smell like a speaker. You want
to look like a thought leader or somebody with a with a very
clearly differentiated brand throughout your entire experience. So
in going online I try to match in what way does that online brand
match the experience of the product or service itself so that I can
learn and apply that
James Taylor
and I think people that you mentioned the start like Marie Forleo
that was poor guy, Paul Jarvis, who's a web designer, yours does
Chris Carr as well. is great because it looks like no other website
for other kind of people in that space. But it matches so perfectly
with her audience in terms of the quality the style is you know,
this is kind of cosmopolitan, you know, as a website so as I
actually get I'm, you're singing to the choir on that one. What
about if you to recommend just one book and it can't be your own
book as amazing as amazing as this book is? If you recommend just
one book about it could be about speaking it could be about
branding or something you you think would be very useful for the
all the speakers out there to be reading
Sally Hogshead
National Speakers Association has a line of books I think it's um
get the I think the one that I like best is get paid to speak
really great thought provoking articles on on launching a speaking
career. Non speaking books I love Made to Stick In fact I love
anything by Chip and Dan Heath because it's all about how do you
take concepts and make them make them sticky make them meaningful,
but term coined by Malcolm Gladwell, but using that in terms of not
just your your content during the speech, but the marketing ahead
of the speech,
James Taylor
and final question for you, and then we're going to just have that
link here for everyone so they can get go through that assessment,
find out their their archetype find out what makes them fascinating
to others. Let's imagine tomorrow morning, you woke up and you have
to restart. You have to start again. You have all the skills, all
the tools of your trade, all the knowledge you have acquired over
the years, but no one knows who Sally Hogshead is. You don't know
one you have to restart. What would you do? How would you restart?
I would
Sally Hogshead
pick one way when one form of media, one message, one key benefit
that I deliver that is that is extremely valuable to the person to
whom I'm trying to reach. And then I would be extraordinary in that
way. Look, clients don't hire you because you're balanced, they
hire you because you're extraordinary. You don't have to be
perfect. You're not perfect, you'll never be perfect, but you do
have to be perfectly excellent in one particular way. So you don't
need to be associated with everything, you know, the smartest, the,
the the cheapest, you know, you don't you don't want to be
associated with a bunch of things. You want to be associated with
specific traits. Because if clients can't remember you, they can't
refer you. They have to be able to describe you so that people can
talk about they can they can explain why other people should hire
you. Can I give you an example? Yes,
James Taylor
absolutely. Okay.
Sally Hogshead
This is an example of one I speak this is what my business card
looks like. And you can see what Yeah, there you go. So you can see
at the top it says, How do you fascinate? And then we have the
seven different ways that people fascinate. So when I go to a
speech, and I meet somebody, I say after I after speaking with
them, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about them. So I'll
say, Oh, I think you I think you think creatively. There, I think
you think creatively. And I think you connect, I think you connect
with emotion. So when I give this to them, sorry, I'm, our webcam
is like backwards. So I think you think creatively, and connect
with emotion. And then I peel it off, and I give it to them. Then
they have this amazing souvenir of the speech, but then they want
to go and be like, wow, here are the two ways that I can
differentiate myself. Well, on the back, it's my business card. So
then it tells them how to how to be able to get it to be able to
get in touch with me. So by giving them something that they don't
want to shove in their pocket, or worse shove in the trash. My
business card doesn't get caught up and all of those like so
networking business cards, I think it's really great to be able to
give your audience something something of value that is so
intrinsically branded with with you and who you are in your message
that they never want to get rid of it in fact they want to put it
on their desk and display it because that's the best talk value
there is
James Taylor
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