Mar 26, 2020
How to Write a TED Talk
Want to know how to write a TED Talk? In today’s interview James Taylor interviews speaker and former TEDxCambridge Executive Producer Tamsen Webster about:
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Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/sl055-how-to-write-a-ted-talk-with-tamsen-webster/
James Taylor
Hi, it's James Taylor, founder of SpeakersU. Today's episode was
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Hey, there is James Taylor, business creativity keynote speaker and founder of the International Speakers Summit. Today, I talk with Tamsen Webster, and she talks to me about how to craft a great TED Talk, discovering your red thread and why great ideas are built, not found. Enjoy the session.
Hey, it's James Taylor. delighted today to be joined by Tamsen Webster. Park idea whisper part message strategist and pop recovering marketer. Tamsen Webster helps people and organizations like Verizon, HP bank, Ericsson, Johnson and Johnson and Disney find and communicate the power of their ideas. She is the executive producer of TEDx Cambridge, one of the oldest and largest locally organized TEDx talk events in the world, and a sought after presentation consultant, and former lives. She worked in both agencies and nonprofits heading up brand marketing and fundraising communication strategy, along with a brief but enduring turn as a change management consultant. She was a reluctant marathon marathoner twice, is a winning ballroom dancer in her mind, and everything she knows about people speaking and change she learned at Weight Watchers. That's a true story. So welcome, Tamsin, to the side.
Tamsen Webster
Well, thank you so much delighted to be here.
James Taylor
So Shula, our attendees, what's going on in your world just
now.
Tamsen Webster
In my world right now. is there's a very interesting strange summer
conference season going on. I just finished an event that I host to
help people figure out their big idea for their next talk and then
about to head and attend to different conferences. So the US is a
National Speakers Association Conference influence and then another
event after that.
James Taylor
Wonderful and then how do you mention your journey? You've been a
consultant on different things and you you're kind of known as the
burn ideas whisperer. helping people find, find it. The thing is,
as a keynote speaker, how did you get into that work
specifically,
Tamsen Webster
that work specifically came out of the work that I do with TEDx
Cambridge. So as the TEDx Cambridge executive producer, one of my
big roles there is to help finalize the slate of speakers and then
I coach each of those speakers to the stage and that's typically a
10 to 12 week process. And there's the thing that I figured out as
we were talking to potential speakers and working with those
speakers themselves was it people have an idea of about their
topic, they have an idea about their message. But the idea itself
is often a very difficult thing to articulate and to clarify. But
without that, it's impossible to put together a short three to 18
minute talk like you do with Ted. So I started working on figuring
out how to make it easier for people to pull out their great ideas
and figured out a process for that, and eventually was able to test
it through Ted and other places realized it worked, and then
realize that that's a struggle that not just Ted and TEDx speakers
have. It's a struggle that most speakers have to really figure out
what's at the core of their idea and how to make it even
better.
James Taylor
Is there anything when it comes to TEDx is Ted or TEDx is
specifically this very unique and different to Maybe someone's just
giving a regular one hour keynote, for example,
Tamsen Webster
a number of things. The first thing I would say that's really
different about a TED style or TEDx talk is the The barrier for
entry is high. And not just because there's application and all of
that, but because there's an expectation that the ideas have a
couple really key things. One is that it's fully within the
speaker's domain of authority is how I like to refer to it, that
when you hold up the speaker and the idea, those two make sense,
absolute sense together, that that speaker is utterly defensible as
being an expert or an authority on that topic. Now, a lot of
speakers can hit that even in a keynote, but from a TEDx, it gets
attitude because there's other expectation. The second thing that
they need is what I would call burden of proof. They need to be
able to show how they have put that idea to work or how it is put
to work or how research backs it up or the research that they've
done. And that is the thing that starts to take it into a different
perspective. So it's a difference for instance, between someone who
has an incredibly powerful story about being diagnosed and
overcoming or living with the disease. And that would be, which
would be a great keynote topic, versus someone who has had that
same thing. And then went on to interview 3050 100 other people
with that same disease, created a documentary around it, debuted at
Sundance, etc. And that's that right there is one of those key
differences are you did you put in an extra work? The third thing
is that it has to be totally new. It has to be something that
people haven't heard before, and that it's not readily available.
In fact, there's a lot of TEDx is that openly say that TEDx that
excuse me that speakers who are life coaches, or business coaches,
or professional keynote speakers are going to have to do even more
to prove that their idea is different in some way.
James Taylor
I guess that's because as a keynote speaker, you're so used to
working up your one or your two speeches and just going over and
tweaking, improving all the time, to a certain kind of audience and
so if you have to compress To an 18 minute, you know, I'm guessing
that that's maybe not right anyway for that for that type of thing.
And you said, You know, I was talking to a guest I had my podcast
recently would get Bregman who just did the TED, the main Ted, Ted,
Ted, yes, rinse and repeat with a camera, the name of Rutgers coach
they had for it as well. But he said, You know, there's an example
of someone who has real domain expertise. He's very knowledgeable
what he does, he also has done huge levels of research and have a
successful book out on it as well. But he said, it was like having
to do a completely different new thing again, to take that
knowledge that was there in that life and the life of him as a
writer and a researcher and a story and, and put it into some kind
of format and it was very, very challenging. It is He speaks a lot
as well. So it's not like he doesn't speak he speaks a lot but he
said that format is a very difficult one to get right.
Tamsen Webster
It is because and you hit on one aspect of it, which is that to get
to the timeframe, which is three to 18 minutes, you can't just take
a bigger talk and squish it down. If they're there, you have to do
one of two things either take it way up and give it a much more
overarching view, like a chronological view, this is how I came up
with this idea. And here's the impact that it had. Or you have to
go much, much deeper to some core concepts that the book may
represent. But it isn't, or a talk may represent. But isn't that
main piece. The second real flip in the format itself is that it
they don't work when they are what I would refer to as the academic
style of presentation. So an academic style. I don't even mean
that, you know, oh, it's a professor reading notes from an actor.
And I think a lot of keynote speakers end up doing this, which is
we give the answer to the problem right out of the gate. We say we
have this problem, here's the solution. And then the rest of the
talk is either justification for that solution or examples of that.
So solution or exercises based off of that solution? And those can
be incredibly interesting, incredibly engaging talks. Absolutely.
But they, they don't feel like a story to people,
James Taylor
it feels like someone that's been a trainer or a consultant. So
they think their mindset is in that way of problem solution. Like,
you know, speed explanation. Yeah, exactly. You're talking about
his his storytelling, which is a different storytelling.
Tamsen Webster
And it's important to understand is that it isn't just slapping
stories on to do an idea or a talk because there are even videos on
Ted calm where somebody tells a story at the beginning. And it's
completely unrelated to the talk that they end up giving. And then
you as the audience member, you go like, Well, it wasn't a story,
but why did you tell that when I'm talking about is is structuring
the information around any idea. And I would say training and
consulting even works just as well, if not better when it's framed
this way as well, where it takes people through an emotional
journey. Up and down, back backwards and forwards through a
discovery of information. So that you may introduce a problem up
front, but that you don't give the actual solution to it until
later in in the talk. In fact, we have to make sure that we've made
the case for the solution before you give the solution. And that
does two things. One, it means that you as a speaker ends up
building this beautiful suspense and kind of emotional feeling to
the talk, even if it's not an emotional talk. And the second thing
is that by the time you get to the conclusion, by the time you get
to that thing that you want people to do differently. They feel
like Oh, of course, and then there's no defensiveness on their
part. Whereas an academic piece or an academic structure, think of
it that way. Once you've once you've said to someone, here's the
problem, here's my solution to it, then you're really in a position
of defending that idea for the rest of the talk. And then you hope
at the end of it that you've convinced that Everyone that you've
made it. But I'd much prefer to get little bits of agreement all
the way along so that when you get to that solution, when you get
to that big idea, the audience goes, Oh, that's, Oh, of course. And
so that you know that you get that reveal built in and you get that
you get that wonder that the audience comes away feeling Not only
that, that that you were smart, and this was a great idea, but they
end up feeling smarter. And that, to me is a huge goal of any
speaker.
James Taylor
The ones I remember very strongly are of different types. You like
Ken Robinson's talk, which is quite more more professor, I would
say. Proof premise, premise proof. Sorry. There's there's a lot of
kind of standard things of good speakers, keynote speakers would
do. And then I speak think of there was a doctor, a doctor Taylor
Taylor's name namesake, who went through having a stroke and she
had a neuroscientist so she was talking through That was very
narrative LED, and you felt you were going on a journey. And it was
almost a little bit, Tarantino esque where you're getting these
snippets of things. And it didn't make sense, but you knew it was
going somewhere, but you couldn't work out where it was going. And
then the kind of reveal starts to happen at the end, which I think
is really difficult to do for an hour to hold people in those kind
of suspend to not give, you know, give them that that kind of,
Okay, this is the key takeaways. But within that nine minute or 18
minute segment, it's actually really powerful to do because you can
play in a different way and, and can take people in little journeys
and have stories going alongside each other. And you can have a lot
more, a lot more creativity, even though you've compressed it in a
short period of time.
Tamsen Webster
Well, the way I like to think about is that any any any great talk
that moves an audience from point A to point z by the by the
beginning to the end, follows a basic structure and that structure
is the same and what's interesting is that it functions In the same
way in an 18 minute talk as it can, in a 90 minute keynote, the
flesh around it can look very different, just like you and I share
skeletons that are going to look very much alike. But everything
that we do, how we move, what we do with it, how we look in the
outside, is very, very different. And so what's fascinating, I know
that talk to polti, Taylor's talk called my stroke of insight is
that she does all sorts of fascinating things with with that talk.
And if you think about, and one of the most interesting thing is
that she that she does kind of hold back on what the big idea is of
that talk until quite close to the end. But here's what's
interesting is that that structure I'm talking about, can actually
be replicated in a much longer keynote. But what you're doing is
you need to treat the sections of the talk almost as little
versions of TED Talks. And what I mean by that is, you know,
getting someone introducing them to a problem. You know, from an
initial goal that the audience might want introducing them to a
problem is something that probably could or should take you about
10 to 15 minutes. But you can structure that piece to feel like a
TED talk where the big reveal is the problem I see. And then you
and then you can extend it by saying, Okay, well, now the next
thing is, you know, where the next 10 to 20 minutes is a big reveal
to get to not a solution. And this is one place where I get feisty
about it is actually to a deeper understanding something I refer to
as the core idea of a talk that can get there. And then the next
piece is this, you know, 510 15 minutes to get you to what change
now what does that mean? What's the big shift and approach? Or
what's the big solution that we have to get to? And then you've got
the last 1520 minutes to talk about what does that look like in
action so that you come back to that original goal of the talk. So
really, that structure exists, whether it's in three minutes, which
I've seen it done, you can look at Derek Severs talk TED talk on
how to start a movement all the way through Through 1690 minute
keynotes, it's just about how how much time you spent in between
those kind of bones that need to be there.
James Taylor
So I was a talk on Friday. It was it was a den I was invited. It
was former President Barack Obama, he was speaking and got a chance
to speak to him for an hour she had, I had to ask him any advice he
had for freshers speakers or public speakers because he's doing a
such a great orator, and we can meet conflate of things. And to my
humor use of humor. In a talk, I noticed something he did right at
the start, which is kind of similar to like the second Robinson's
one is he started using humor, actually, he kind of broke broke the
ice there. And then he made a statement of something which you
could get like 99% of people in the room, got, you know, would
agree on, and then that foundation, he then kind of moved on to
things as well. So I'm just wondering like that, that use of humor,
especially very early in when where does it go from being candid?
Have an entertaining style or entertaining talk to an effective
talk?
Tamsen Webster
Well, when it comes to humor, I would say from the use of humor,
the difference between entertaining and effective is whether or not
that humor is related to the point that you're trying to land. Or
are you just saying something funny to be funny, and funny to be
funding is great, it opens, it opens the door for some speakers
that helps them feel more relaxed, it gets the audience to feel
more relaxed, you get all those endorphins going in the audience.
And that's great. I think there's another bar that you can get to
though, and I think that you can be just as funny and it can land a
point that you're trying to land. And what's interesting even about
Kevin Ken Robinson's talk, the one that you refer to is that the
humor he's using in the beginning is if you go back and look at it
actually is absolutely tied to the points that he's trying to make
in the talk. And that is when you move from just entertaining too
effective. When the stories that you tell when the humor that you
use is drives for the point In some way, that's I think that's a
bar where I'd love to see more speakers go and cross
James Taylor
what one of the things you're known for is this idea of the the red
thread. So you've spoken about this before, and I i was i was
watching brock obama speak, I was actually thinking about his red
thread for it. And I sense that his was and we talked about what
red thread is and confining your own your own red thread as well.
But my sense was his voice change. You know, he spoke in
presidential elections before change was a huge part of it. And I
was listening to what he was speaking about on stage and this time,
he's talking about automation and machine learning and artificial
intelligence, how that's going to change the nature of work and
what we do and how we have to rescale and retrain people think so
that that you know, and it may be whether he kind of reflects on it
or not, but that from an audience perspective member, I kind of
felt that that's the thing that was kind of tying all of his work
together. So what is that? What is a red thread? Because I think
it's quite important, especially in an early stage and speakers
career, that they think about that because it's very natural just
want to get booking gigs and booking speaking engagements without
maybe taking a little bit a step back and thinking about well, what
what is that? That thread there?
Tamsen Webster
Sure. So the red thread itself is is a concept that I first learned
from some Swedish clients of mine. It's a phrase that Scandinavians
use and they use it to talk about or in the context of asking, what
is the thing that makes this make sense? And so if they're looking
for the message or the through line of something, they say, what is
the red thread? And from a from I think we all have that need,
don't wait it to understand when we're listening to something,
particularly to a talk that we want to be able to quickly and
easily answer. If somebody says, Well, what was the talk about to
be able to have a crisp, clean, effective answer to that, and if
we're a speaker, then we Wouldn't it be great? Wouldn't it be
wonderful that we could use that as a test? If we walk into giving
a talk saying, This is what this talk is about? Even if you never
told that to the audience, you could test the audience by
afterwards going after so and say, Well, what did you think the
talk was about? And if you hear back that answer yet, like that red
thread, then you know, you've succeeded at it. The challenge, of
course, is well, how do you get to that quick answer? And this is
where this is where a lot of what I learned in the years that I've
now worked with TEDx speakers came into play, because a lot of
times we try to work backwards from a red thread. We try to work
backwards from Well, here's the here's my big idea. Here's my,
here's my message. But I believe very strongly that ideas aren't
found. They're built. They are built out of a couple different key
components that have to be there. Before you can really effectively
answer that question. What is the talk about? So for instance, a
lot of people if you're familiar with the TED Talk, Like Amy
Cuddy's TED talk on power posing. You know, you could say, well,
what's the talk about? Well, some people might say, well, it's
about body language or it's about imposter syndrome. It's about
power posing. But I would argue that, like the the Crispus answer
to that is that that that talk is about the red thread of that talk
is about how to use body language to overcome and power pop, excuse
me how to use body language to overcome imposter syndrome. But you
see, we have to understand a couple things before we can get there.
That's where this this process that I came up with, with the TED
speakers turned into a method that I now call the red thread. And
it goes back to that idea that we were talking about before about
the bones of a talk that have to be there. And you mentioned one
already, which is you said that Barack Obama started with a
statement that really early on, everyone could say yes to and I
refer to that as the goal. That is that the audience needs to hear
something fairly early on in a presentation that answers For them,
what will I get if I listen to this? And so, Amy Cuddy's talk, for
instance, starts off by talking about imposter syndrome. And so
this is a this is an example of what's the audience's goals. I want
to overcome imposter syndrome. Now, a goal is really only
interesting and a story is really interesting if it's if there's a
problem and it's way. And so the next big bone that has to be the
next big piece of the red thread that has to be present in any any
talk is a problem. And not just a problem that the audience could
readily see. Is there not a known barrier? Not like, Oh, well, it
feels uncomfortable to be out front of people if we're talking
about Amy Cuddy's talk, but some deeper underlying problem that you
as the as the speaker can identify. Then the next piece is is
actually something very, very important. I mentioned it earlier.
It's that there is an idea that explains both why the problem is
such a problem and why the change They're the solution, you're
going to recommend as the only one that can be there. It's
something that people can't unhear it is something that describes
the world in a wholly new way. And if people could understand and
agree with it, then they would understand and agree with the change
they're going to recommend. So we've got gold problem idea, then
and only then in my mind, should you introduce the change that
you're asking people to make? Because in order for a red thread to
make to have meaning for people, and meaning, in fact, is this kind
of Trojan horse of change, it has to make sense. And so you really
need that problem, idea change. And then the last piece, not always
there, and Ted Talks, almost always there in a longer talk, his
actions, the actions that make that change happen. So I put all
those together. And if you go back and look at some of these great
talks, they have those elements in that order. And when a talk
doesn't work, it's usually missing an element or the elements are
out of order.
James Taylor
So I'm thinking of that just now. And And then what the one that
springs to mind is the Simon Sinek start with why so his the the
start with one is a visual representation of it as well. So that
the idea that you can't was it can't unhear Yes, that's that that's
that thing when he does that and you go Oh, okay. Okay, I get it
now and then obviously then kind of goes into the the change and
talking about what's required or to get to that point as well and
and I can't remember off the top my head of his actions at the end
I can't remember off the top
Tamsen Webster
I really aren't in his Yeah, his is a great example of the talk
actually starts right out of the gate with with the goal statement.
He asks a question right up front about what why is it that some
companies succeed where others don't? Why is it that some companies
are able to stand out where others and then gives an example with
apple? And I would argue that the idea that's at the core of that
talk is the moment where he says people don't buy what you do. They
buy why you buy Do it. Yeah. So it's that moment where people go,
Oh, yeah. And then everything Ah, and then and then it goes and
then explains it in reverse at this is, this is why we have to go
figure it out. So what he's doing up until that point is showing
that, that you know how people currently explain what they do,
showing that there are companies that that have a deeper
explanation for it then uses that to say, people don't buy what you
do they buy, why you do it. And then the second half of the talk
basically is about illustrating that golden circle, how it works
and how it applies. And you're right, there really isn't an action
to that talk. But that talk is about getting people to that new
idea, and then showing them how that idea applies to their
world.
James Taylor
And I'm gonna have to go watch that now. I'll make sure we have the
link here because I think it's interesting because that start with
why phrase is used all the time. I hear again, use all the time,
and I'd be interested find out how often they use that phrase in in
the actual talk where they kind of echoed it back. You know, like,
like a great jazz trumpeter would would kind of play that theme
every so often and kind of and they would go in variations on a
theme or something. So be interested in, how he's doing it. What
one of the other things that you can train on when you're working
and you coach on when you're working with clients, is about the
pacing site, and the the kind of physicality and the pace and
that's one of the things I always put away from the hearing Barack
Obama talk is his masterful use of pacing and the pause and the and
the breath. And so when you first start working with some of the
kind of common things you find that your prospective Ted talkers do
that you have to kind of like work on at a relatively early stage
with them when it comes to pacing and and how they present
themselves in that way.
Tamsen Webster
I think the best way to sum up the thing that most people fall in a
trap of is that they deliver everything thing kind of in the same
way. And Michael Porter, who I know is also on your list of
speakers for this, spends a lot of time in his book steal the show
on this on that idea of contrast. And I think that's the biggest
thing for people to understand that it's it. The reason why pauses
work, the reason why some speaker seems so effective is because
they've managed to create contrast. So why is the contrast so
important and that the contrast is so important because it's, it
helps direct attention, that helps direct the audience's attention
to there are certain things that I need to pay more attention to,
are there certain things that I don't have to be fully tuned in
with. But think of it this way, if somebody is just talking the
same way all the time, then you get to a point where you can start
to tune them out. It's when they stop talking. Or when something
starts to be really different about how they talk that you start to
really listen. So the the, you know, there are people who do much
much more work on delivery than I do, but what I what I found is a
couple hacks, you know, kind of easy ways to flip people into
better delivery really quickly. And the chief hack that I use is
something I call the traffic light system or the signal system.
It's red light, yellow light, green light, since most of us have
those colors when it comes to traffic systems. And here's the way
to think about it. The vast majority of any presentation should be
delivered as on a green light, like you can go Go quickly. And in
fact, you should go quickly you should be talking at what is your
normal conversational speed, even if that's fairly fast, so I don't
believe in people talking too fast. I do believe in people talking
too fast for too long. Because that becomes difficult for people to
pull out what the big ideas are.
James Taylor
So like a Tony Robbins is a classic example someone who speaks very
fast or or Gary Vaynerchuk speaks very fast. But they're still
known as great speakers because we'll go into your point,
Tamsen Webster
because there's going to be those moments where if I'm speaking
fast, and I'm getting that there's gonna be This moment where I
reach up point where everything changes. And when that happens, the
audience is going to like, stop, listen. And so what I find about
great speakers is they have at the opposite end of the green light
content is what I call red light content, where you want to stop,
you want to pause, you're going to be going in terms of your normal
pace probably quite slowly. But when you do that people have this
clear idea of when I need to lean in when I need to lean out it's a
technique though I put that traffic signal signal thing I learned
this technique I learned at a company I used to work for called
called or rotti of or a ti M. And they had this very much this this
idea of how do you think through these different pacings and I
think the the red light yellow light, green light is a really
effective way to do that. So green light, most of your talk or
presentation. The red light should be your key concepts and the
Guess what those key concepts are? They are the goal, the problem,
the idea, the change, and those actions so that somebody listening
through can go, all right, telling a story telling a story. But
here's the point. Why is it that certain kids are creative beyond
childhood and other ones aren't. And then I'm back to a story, it's
back to a story back to a story. So there's one more color in
there. And that's the yellow light content. And what I described
the yellow light content is it use it as you're supposed to use a
yellow light, which is to slow down not to speed up and go through,
but it's a place where you want to make sure that you're careful
with how you're speaking about something. So you're not going to be
in your full slow, here's a big point moment. But you do need to
slow it down because this is a concept that maybe they haven't
heard before. So if I'm going along and talking and you know,
telling the story about the red thread, for instance, I want to
stop and say well, the red thread is a phrase that comes For
Swedish, that means really what is this thing about what is the
thing that makes things make sense, and the way it came from us
debt and I can go back. So yellow light is for those moments of
explanation, those moments for new concepts, and the moments where
you're introducing a phrase or a word that people may not know. But
then once you're there, you're going to either want to go straight
into something that's red light, or probably more likely back to
green light. And most people I think would benefit from speeding up
the basic pace of their presentation, but slowing down just on
those chemo adding that contrast and as you as
James Taylor
you were saying, as well you know, Ted we think a TED an idea worth
spreading is the is the phrase that's used for that all the time.
What takes an idea from being interesting every day but you know
can interesting to being knocked out extraordinary new agent Derek
Severs friend and he due to how ideas spread and how movements are
created, you know, that's I thought that was extremely, very short,
but extraordinary as well. Yeah. So what is it that takes that idea
from just being the everyday hum? to extraordinary?
Tamsen Webster
Well, the, the thing that I found about it is that it's about
figuring out how to make each piece of it as unique and as
different as possible. And so what I mean by that is, is, you know,
when I first start working with folks on finding the red thread of
something, and one of those first questions is, well, what, what
problem does this solve? And, for instance, one of the most common
answers I get, as well as fear people are afraid. And fear could be
a great base problem for a keynote, it is not going to be enough
usually to make an idea stand out amazing, because it's the people
who've done the work of figuring out one layer deeper. What's his
fear blind you to? What does it keep you from doing what's causing
the fear? And can you describe that in a way that others Haven't
heard before, or that people haven't heard before. That's one of
the first places to set your idea apart. One of the things to
remember about a great problem statement in my mind is that it's,
it's it represents tension between tension between one way of
seeing the world that the audience is doing right now and a way
that you're going to introduce them to. And if you think about it,
just from that standpoint, that's why fear isn't enough, because
it's not fear between two things. Fear is a statement, you can't
unfit be unafraid, suddenly, from people, you can't talk someone
out of a feeling, but you can help them understand if that that
fear is for instance, blinding them to seeing, like the big picture
of something, you know, it's the fear is getting them to focus and
seeing only the details, and now that's something that they can
fix. And you can say, Okay, yeah, fears there. We all know that
fear exists. But here's in this case, what it's helping you to do.
If you do that same kind of thinking kind of all the way through
and say okay, well what's what's more interesting different way to
say the idea what's a different change that I can put out there,
then you get this mathematical ability to make an idea. unique and
really strong at the same time.
James Taylor
So that almost sounds like that. The first level of fear being I
mean, I think I talked about automation and the future of work. So
the first step was everyone kind of knows that things are changing,
you know, in a big way with automation machine learning. So that
kind of like that's that level one, really. But you have to kind of
go a level then below that, in order to find something that's
unique that's memorable that actually people can can use it has
some kind of transform transformative effect on them. So after they
leave that room after 18 minutes, they go, Okay, I can't
remember.
Tamsen Webster
Exactly, well,
Tamsen Webster
exactly. It's about going that narrow, next layer deeper, and I'd
say the other the equivalent of fear, and so I is that, you know,
on the other side, so the most common change that I see people
recommend is The equivalent of baby steps will just take small
steps. So if you're afraid of something, just take small steps. And
and so fear and baby steps is what I call it. It's what I call it
what I see it as something that isn't, you know, I described a talk
that way, if it's like, oh, that's a fear of baby steps. Meaning
it's a talk, it's basically an idea I've heard before in one way or
another because the problem is fear and solutions, baby steps. But
if you start to think differently about how you get to a problem,
so let's say that the problem with automation isn't just fear,
that's but that's a good place to start because it gets the
audience on page and you can acknowledge that, you know, you
understand that where they're coming from. If you want to get to a
point, for instance, where I'm working with a couple of speakers
for our next TED event, right now TEDx event right now, where, for
instance, here, but we've got this tension between the pace of
development the pace of evolution of technology is in fact at odds
with the pace of evolution of humans where technology is evolving
faster than humans can keep up. Well, now you've got a new Now
you've got a real problem to a explain why the fear is valid, but
B, now you've got something that you can dig into in a really meaty
way.
James Taylor
There's a tension there, there's a tension. So there's a tension
going on that that quest there's that there's a tension there.
Tamsen Webster
But you have to figure out what that is. And fear is an effort it
fears a signal that tension exists. That's your clue. You're like
you've you've identified that fear is present. Great. Now you have
to figure out why, like, either what's causing the fear or what is
the fear keeping you from doing and once you've got that tension,
now you've got something that you can create a much more
interesting change is the result. Because if you've got to change,
for instance, so I'm going to use a talk from a different event
that we had where we had a speaker who was talking about big data,
so similar in a lot of ways to AI, and and she was talking about
the problem, you know, the root problem that she came down to was
that big data doesn't create just create more knowledge, it creates
more unknowns. So That, you know, if we're talking about an
organization or a business that wants to reduce their risk and
their businesses you're making, and they're using big data to do
it, she's validating the fact that is creating more knowledge. But
she's also introducing a bigger problem, which is it creates more
unknowns. And so before just saying, Okay, so, you know, make sure
you've got better big data, which would be a very simple, not very
interesting change, she introduces the idea, which is that the
greatest business risk comes from the unknown. So now all of a
sudden, there's a new idea that you're like, ah, of course, which
now indicates why big data on its own is such a problem. I've got
more unknowns, thanks to my big data. And that's where the risk is,
therefore, that sets up a change, if not just ease into ease into
big data with baby steps, but she's saying, No, we need to, we need
to counterbalance big data with something that this is a woman
named Trisha Wong, that we counterbalance with something called the
thick data so that it's not big and fast. And surface and whatever,
but it's thick and it gets to the insights and it gets people's
engagement going. When you have a better problem, it makes that
core idea easier to find and more powerful. And it sets up a more
interesting change that allows you to have ownership of it. And
it's that ability to own the idea that I think really takes it to a
different level. And so this is the standard. I think that coming
back to that question of entertaining versus effectiveness that we
have to have, which is that is it clear? Can people in a moment in
a sentence in, in in a tweet be able to tell you or tell someone
else? More importantly, what is the talk about? So is it clear, the
second, is it defensible? Does it make sense that you're speaking
about it? Have you made the case for it? Is it Have you thought
through what the objections are Have you have you actually
deconstructed them in the course of the talk? And then finally, is
it differentiated? Have you been able to take that clarity and that
defensibility Create something that's different. And here's the
thing, I believe that everybody has that clear, defensible,
differentiated idea within them. I know that not everybody is
willing to put the work in to find it, or necessarily to, to do the
work to put it on a TEDx stage. But even if more speakers who are
just keynote speakers, professional speakers, even if we just moved
everything forward to that level of of saying, Let's make
effectiveness circle, I think we would find that would help us
satisfy even more what meeting organizers and meeting planners are
looking for. Because they are looking for something more than just
entertainment. They have to defend these fees. They have to defend
why they're pulling together, hundreds or thousands of people from
their company and putting somebody else up in front of them. They
need to see true changes and thinking and behavior that come
afterwards. And not just little tactical things that those are
important. They need to see that shift. In order to get that shift.
We have to work on our ideas.
James Taylor
And I guess that's the difference. To take someone from being a
side room speaker speaking on one of the master class or something
actually be speaking on on the big stage. Yes. And, you know, it's
interesting as you talk about that, you know, that that that red
thread as well, I would, I would imagine, it is difficult, perhaps
impossible to find that on your own. Because you're, especially if
you're a subject matter expert, you are so deep in, in what your
your subject is, regardless, you know, especially if you come from
the academic side as well, you're so in it the whole time to be
able to, you know, have someone else, you know, look and have those
other sets of eyes and going to go actually, you think it's this
actually, this is where it where it's at. So that's obviously one
of the things that you do, and I know we've got mutual friends
you've done helped them with finding their red thread, and it's
been transformative for them. In fact, they've I know one person in
particular who's basically was inspired Writing one book and we're
doing one speech and change. And it's creating a completely
different book and a different speech. And it's a much stronger
book and speech, I think for it as well. So yes, talk to us about
the red thread worksheet.
Tamsen Webster
Absolutely. So the red thread worksheet is your first step to being
able to find the red thread on your own because it is possible. I
don't want I wouldn't put something out there and say like, No,
actually, you just have to hire me to get it. Because but what it
is we'll walk you through the the five questions that I ask people
when I'm working with them, to find their red thread or the red
thread of their talk or their platform. And it's going to it's
going to be an opportunity for you to start pulling through those
concepts for yourself. So I'm going to ask you, what is the
audience's goal? What is the thing they would readily say yes to
that thing, like Barack Obama that everyone is like, Yeah, okay.
We're Yes, this would be great. I want to know a talk that I want
to hear a talk that's about this. ask you questions about the
problem so that you can think through where does that tension come
from what we've just talked about before ask you what is the idea
that explains that problem and justifies the change of the solution
they're going to make asks you for your change then asked you to
list out those actions. So it is a place to get started. And what
you can do is that the, the best way to do it, if you want to do it
on your own, is to talk it through with some someone else, because
you're right, we are so close to our own ideas that it's often very
difficult for us to see them I like to describe it this way is
that, you know, when you're operating on a computer, whether it's a
Mac or PC, and you're moving, you know, you're dragging and
dropping a folder around your desktop, for instance, that feels
super easy to it's it's second nature to us now. And what we don't
realize and we don't even consciously think about is that that's
all the product of code that's written underneath it that we don't
see. And when we live our lives when we produce these ideas, it's
very much the same way that the work that you've done so far the
talks that you've done so far, the books that you've written so far
The life that you've led so far is the same thing as the desktop on
your computer. It's the manifestation of this underlying code. And
what I found with these five questions is that that they won't
always be easy to answer, but they are the best way I found so far
to start to surface that code out to show you what are some of
those baseline assumptions, beliefs, values that you have that
explain why you care so much about what you do or why certain
topics are so interesting to you or why a talk that you gave five
years ago is related to the one that you're working on now. Because
it all comes from the same code. I think I often say to my clients
as you cannot keep a good red thread down it will show up again and
again and again in everything you do. So this worksheet is really
help designed to help you start to surface that code and start to
see the pieces for yourself.
James Taylor
I think also we have many people on this summit who are attending
who are professional speakers may be seen for a long time, but
maybe they a point where it's maybe time for a little bit of
reinvention in terms of the what they speak about. And I think
something like this will be incredibly useful for them as well, as
they take a step back, because it's so easy. I know, for
professionals, keynote speakers, you got to start getting books and
starts getting busy, then you start adding other products on other
things. And before, you know, it's like, what, what happened, what
am I surrounded with? And so it was kind of difficult to then make
make that switch. Is it challenging, I would say and it would be
brave to have to make that switch, you know, it's time is there to
do that. So I think the red thread the you know, the worksheet is
also a value. Even if you're not getting started you maybe you've
been in Korea for a while just to go through that process and maybe
reevaluate what what that what that threat is for you.
Tamsen Webster
You're right, people get busy, which is why a couple times a year I
pull together people over the course of a weekend to work on this
intensively because if with busy keynote speakers, I've heard
exactly that from folks that have been Through that weekend where
they've said, I wouldn't have worked on this this way if I hadn't
had if I didn't have to spend a day and a half working on it. And
what's fascinating about every single one of them is that they come
away with a new and refresh perspective and an excitement about a
talk. Maybe they've been giving for years because they say, oh,
which is little tiny shifts, I can see how to make this talk that's
already been very good, very profitable for me. Great. And now even
in certain cases, they can start to see where the next one comes
from. Where's the next one? And how do you start to create a system
around your talks, a series of talks so that a client that loves
one talk that you give, then you can say well, if you love that
one, then here's a great follow on to that one. And it all comes
back to that red thread
James Taylor
and I know you're also speaking you speak at Michael ports, who
wrote public speaking live events as well. So people are checking
any of those they can I know you, you can have your there and
you're the ideas whisperer helping people find their red threads,
which is absolutely awesome. is a very very valuable service. So
thank you very much for helping all those new and professional very
experienced speakers can reconnect with with their red thread
anywhere else if anyone wants to maybe connect with you follow up
with you isn't where's the best placement to go for that?
Tamsen Webster
Everything that you would want to know I think you can find
centralised on Tamsin webster.com but also feel free to connect on
LinkedIn and Facebook brand page which is facebook.com slash Tamsin
Webster and on Twitter at at Tamra dear ta ma de AR
James Taylor
wonderful Thompson, thank you so much for coming on. I look forward
to meeting up with you soon.
Tamsen Webster
All right, thanks so much. Today's episode
James Taylor
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